$400 NLHE Full Ring: qq nuts till river..wtf spot

Dealt QsQc in dealer position. Live @ casino, $2/5

Folds around to villain to my right, makes it 15. Hero raises to 60, everyone else folds, villain tanks a minute while playing w chips, calls.

Flop qd 9h 3s. Villain checks, hero makes it 100, villain calls.

Turn 4c. Villain bets 180...Hero makes it 450. Villain calls.

River Kh. Villain checks, hero bets 800...villain freakin asks for a chip count, and shoves!

Fml.

Both stacks around $4K, so riverspot is insane! We both had good night at table...end of 8 hr session..met lots of fishies that day lol. He was playing very tight pre, but generally very aggro postflop, def barreled his way into a bunch of big pots earlier. He talked a lot of "EV" with his one friend at the table (nothing complex, just loling @ donk play), id imagine they're online players. He saw me play a ton of hands..slowplay some, barrel w air on others, but a lot of abc poker for the most part. I had just called for rack and called that button would be my last hand...go figure.

was valuebetting that river awful?

Does hero call? Him checking river made me tank quite a while here..

I Fold fast.
*Every draw he could have held just came in.
*Lesser value next to never shoves here.
*As all the draws came in he rarely holds air.
*Turning a hand into a bluff for 1000bb would not only take balls of steel but takes a solid read you can fold monsters and a skilled hand reader. Not something I deem most live regs or online players to have especially some idiot who critisizes bad play openly at the table. That and good players won't be calling the turn with the sort of hands we'd turn in to a bluff.

One thing I can say. If you folded and he bluffed he is ~100% to show the bluff. I'm a modest man but if I bluffed someone for 1000bbs I'm showing the world . If he didn't show rest assured he had the goods.

Value betting the river was fine, I'd have sized the turn raise larger given the stack sizes the wet board and us holding the nuts.

Sorry it was a rainbow flop...turn completed rainbow, no flush. Sorry if hh is confusing

Yeah straight draw and kk hit though

My bad read the d as a h for some reason.
Still a fold imo, JT still got there. Heck KK would make sense as well especially as he tanked pre. I still see no air villain can have. Lesser sets either raise the flop and certainly don't need to tank pre. What could he turn into a bluff which he gets to the turn with even if he had the bollocks to?

i've learned that generally good players at live 2/5 doesn't have the balls to bluff the river at this spot. maybe to a small stack but not to a fellow 8-buyins stack. i would lean towards him having KK here.

it'll be really stupid to snap off with QQ as a hero call in this spot. forget about all the cash games on TV, u're definitely better off folding here and saying ggwpthx and booking a nice win.

Well, he's repping one hand. Your hand is pretty face up. A really good spot to bluff since there's little you'll have that can call in a 3-bet pot here.

In real time I'd likely fold, but overall a really great spot for villain.

John, I agree its a great spot for villain, which tanked me even more. If I have any air or weak value hand..and I'm villain....I can see myself shoving in his spot. It really puts hero in a tough situation unless he happens to have j10, which hero hasn't repped at all sofar.

Postflopper, I generally agree w your thinking...that while good players may like the bluff spot on paper, very few have the balls to do it in that situation. He def showed that he has it in him to make a good read, good bluff earlier in session..but balls like that? Who knows.

Deco..him showing a bluff there terrified me, especially after I invested around $1500 in the pot lol. So hard to put him on air or something turned bluff here tho..kj or k10 maybe?

deff sick spot.
I want to hear results on this.After some talk

I'm not betting that river. if he checked to me after calling htat much on the turn i'm checking and cutting my losses

John A said:

Well, he's repping one hand. Your hand is pretty face up. A really good spot to bluff since there's little you'll have that can call in a 3-bet pot here.

In real time I'd likely fold, but overall a really great spot for villain.

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Game theory-wise you're right and against someone good it'd be pretty exploitable to fold. But hero is playing 2/5 live, it's a super-easy snapfold. This is JT literally 90%+ of the time.

Unless there's a fish very deep, theres no reason to sit with 1k in blinds. Its just too dependant on making the nuts and coolering people.

C9..lol I didn't sit down w that. BI 500..spent most of the night between 1500 n 2k..and there were 4 or 5 players w around that stack. Caught a few big situations at the end and was gonna get up cause, like you said, no reason for all that stack. I taake it that's a fold? Boo no herocalls out there??

I'd call.

I'm guessing he had KK and made trips with the river. The safe play would have been to just check the river, but it's easy to say it sitting here and reading about the hand, a total different story playing it.

If by safe you mean stupid I agree. Checking behind on the river is just throwing $$s away. He's going to be calling with so much that we beat. I think I'd likely fold to the river shove.

Poker_play said:

Deco..him showing a bluff there terrified me, especially after I invested around $1500 in the pot lol. So hard to put him on air or something turned bluff here tho..kj or k10 maybe?

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He'd have to be terrible to get past the flop and turn with a gutshot. Even if they were suited I'd expect any player worth his salt to raise the shit out of a straight flush draw deep.

nothing about the hand makes sense to me.Not floped two pair,sets,KK,only the nuts TJs but even that the donk lead on the turn makes little sense.so so sick

He could potentially have KK, or even AA and be hoping that aces are the best hand. I highly doubt he raised and called a 3-bet preflop with JT to make the straight. I'm not sure if I would call or not, I'd be interested to see what happened though...

I doubt he had KK if he spent that much time thinking pre and just called. And if he has played very tight pre like you said then do you think he would have called the raise with JT?
I think you got semi-bluffed off the best hand. More likely he has Aces here than Kings imo.

xUnrated said:

I doubt he had KK if he spent that much time thinking pre and just called. And if he has played very tight pre like you said then do you think he would have called the raise with JT?

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We're deep. JTs is a snap call this deep JTo can certainly be considered.

Whether to 4bet KK 1000bb deep is a very tough decision as being 5bet would be horrible, it's not like we can stack KK pre for 1000bbs

Deco said:

We're deep. JTs is a snap call this deep JTo can certainly be considered.

Whether to 4bet KK 1000bb deep is a very tough decision as being 5bet would be horrible, it's not like we can stack KK pre for 1000bbs

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We are 800bb's deep but in makes little difference at all.JTs is deff a call JTo is questionable.That given does villain donk bet the turn,check raise the river with JT,99,etc.It is really hard for me to put villain on a range that would donk turn,c/r river.

The turn looks so much like a bet 'to see where he's at' that I see a lot in live poker and then he convinces himself that you've got nothing to call the turn raise. At the river your value bet makes him realize the only way to win is to shove. Your description of the villain makes me want to call the all-in here.

raise turn a little bigger. bet (a little larger) /fold river as default unless you think he's capable of doing this with worse hands - worse sets, two pair, air, etc.

AA shove?

I actually kinda like it..if I'm villain and I have aa, I think river is a shove. I mean its an effective bluff vs the top of hero range (ie qq), which alone is a good move. Imo. But its a valuebet vssome of heros bluffcatching range (id say aq or any k? Being at the bottom of that. I know initial thought is prolly no way hero calls with worse than aa..but are you sure? If hero calls this bluff with qq hero should call it with ak..were not putting villain on anything in between.

sorry if that makes no sense..my mind was all over the place while tanked.

Q: if you're villain and you hit your j10 or kk, is shoving the obv move or do you go for value?

Cause tbh if he minraises to 1600 with nuts..I probably tank calll just because I got odds

But to be fair shoving does polarize his range more and tempts me to herocall...

How much do you raise turn, skillz?

I can't see that affecting action much (nor river bet) considering stack sizes...unless I bet like 1500 on river to make him reconsider bluffing