$400 NLHE Full Ring: Nuts on flop, action on river?

$400 NL HE Full Ring: Nuts on flop, action on river?

I've been sitting at the table for about 3 hrs, playing tight/aggressive with premiums, pretty sure the whole table noticed and didnt mess around much with me when i bet/raised. villian only been on the table for slightly over an hour, seen him around in the casino often, never played with him, but he's been playing solid tight n aggressive in position.

note: i was about even, with a stack of 400 and villian had about 550.

villian raised utg+1 to $18. it was one of the few times he raised in early position preflop, so my initial thought was that he had to have something good. i had J 9 clubs, and called. button called and the blinds folded. 3 players to the flop.

Flop: 8 10 Q, rainbow.
villian bet out $35. obv i had the nuts at this point, and on a rainbow flop, couldnt ask for anything better with my hand. i called the $35 to trap, button folded.

Turn: A. board still rainbow.
villian now bet $65. the A didnt seem to scare him, and i was hoping it helped him, if he had AQ or AK. though my straight was now the 2nd best possible hand, i wasnt concerned as there was a snowball's chance in hell he'll play KJ that strong preflop in early pos. so i flatted the $65.

River: Q
villian bet $115. me: ???

only hand u can beat here imo is a bluff. AQ is most likely the way he played the hand r possibly he flopped a set. i doubt he has a Q like KQ or QJ because i dont see a very tight player opening utg with that and i also see them checking the turn when an Ace hits the board. i know its hard to do cos u flopped the nuts but i would fold this hand unless this player has shown a tendency to 3 barrel bluff.

imo you got yourself in this crappy spot by not raising the turn
i guess flop call is fine since u crush the board and stuff but why you're calling on turn instead of raising is beyond me

you said yourself that the ace didnt scare him so most likely he already has a good hand or the ace helped him get an even better hand, so if you think about it this is the best time to raise and even get all the money in if you can

i would like to hear what your reasoning is for flatting turn because i dont really see how you could get more money in on any river that you couldnt get in on turn

not sure about river, probably a fold unless he showed a tendency to barrel with TP type hands

Raise the flop, there are tons of second best hands that will call a raise, and there are tons of cards that kill your action on the turn.

eNTy said:

imo you got yourself in this crappy spot by not raising the turn
i guess flop call is fine since u crush the board and stuff but why you're calling on turn instead of raising is beyond me

you said yourself that the ace didnt scare him so most likely he already has a good hand or the ace helped him get an even better hand, so if you think about it this is the best time to raise and even get all the money in if you can

i would like to hear what your reasoning is for flatting turn because i dont really see how you could get more money in on any river that you couldnt get in on turn

not sure about river, probably a fold unless he showed a tendency to barrel with TP type hands

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^^^Exactly. I don't really mind the trap play on the flop in attempt to extract more chips from villain but once that A hit the turn you should have put him on a small range of premium hands, including AA. Since it didn't happen this way I could not justify calling the river with a strong boat possibility out there.

c9h13no3 said:

Raise the flop, there are tons of second best hands that will call a raise, and there are tons of cards that kill your action on the turn.

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this.

Yea agree with the consensus. The flop is close since we do want the third opponent to put extra $$ in the pot as well and this bet can be a continuation bet that can't call a raise, so i guess its a toss up between flatting or raising. I still prefer raising even though it squeezes out the third opponent bc we can get a lot of action from AQ KK AA Sets etc and start building a pot that we can play for stacks with.

While the flop is close, the turn is not JAM JAM JAM. An Ace comes it doesn't slow him down so raise now to extract value from 2 pairs sets AK etc etc etc

As played Id probably bang my head against the table for misplaying my hand so badly up to this point and tilt call the river but Im not sure what we're expecting to beat and folding is the better play

thanks for the comments guys. true, i should've raised the turn, was the best play as most of u have said. i stand by my call on the flop though.

i knew i couldnt beat much when the river came, had like, the 7th best possible hand on that board. just sick that nuts on flop could be downgraded to pieces. reminds me of a daniel negreanu hand against eric lindgren when he flopped the nut str8 only to lose to quads.

well, i made a crying call and he showed a boat, 10s full. after the hand when i asked him if i raised at any point, would he have folded, he said obv not, he wouldnt have put me on J9, the way i was playing. if i had KJ, he woulda just had stacked me either way.

so i guess if i had managed to get him in on the flop or turn, i would still've drowned on the river. next time, i'll try to do better. thanks again guys.

You can use your image to bluff-raise a turn or 2 in the right spots now.

postflopper said:

well, i made a crying call and he showed a boat, 10s full. after the hand when i asked him if i raised at any point, would he have folded, he said obv not, he wouldnt have put me on J9, the way i was playing. if i had KJ, he woulda just had stacked me either way.

so i guess if i had managed to get him in on the flop or turn, i would still've drowned on the river.

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This is a very very very very very bad way to think about hands. Decisions not results.

Zybomb said:

This is a very very very very very bad way to think about hands. Decisions not results.

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QFT

no, im just stating the sad fact that i woulda drowned on the river even with the right decision. i now know that i shoulda raised the turn, results-wise it's the right play for these situations.

not stating that im a sucker for results not decisions.

Ahh i had a crazy situation like this live once, new player seats to my right. Im holding Q9h im on the button, gets to the player to the new player in the CO he raises to $8, blinds are 2/3 hes sitting on $150. I call, SB BB and 5 other calls. Flop Js10d8s absolute nuts i flopped, checks around to someone in MP who pushes all in for around $47, three calls after him including our new friend in the CO. I repop it too $187. I get one call, and our CO friend shoves also. Now, im heads up, with two all in players holding the nuts in position. Ive got around $250 left behind me, turn 3s villain opens up all in and he covers me. I know im beat either by him or the all in player, i can only beat a bluff. I fold, he turns 10s5s, all in shortstack shows KJo and villain in the CO shows KdKs river 7s. CO wins on a one card flush, after barely min raising KK first hand in with 7 people to the flop. I made a good fold, but what i saw that hand was suprising

Wow dude, hard decision, I think I call this, he plays like a AJ AT AK

Just as everyone else has said, raise the turn. I'm a little torn on the flop, but we absolutely have to raise the turn here because we want to play for stacks and calling the turn doesn't allow us to feasibly do this without ridiculously overbetting the river.

As you played it you have to just call the river because his calling a shove range is pretty much made up entirely of hands that beat you (and he obviously doesn't fold any hands better than yours), given that he seems to be a decent player.

BelgoSuisse said:

this.

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c9h13no3 said:

Raise the flop, there are tons of second best hands that will call a raise, and there are tons of cards that kill your action on the turn.

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Yeah this...^^ if he's raised with AA, KK (Not sure bout AQ, sum ppl r too nitty with it, spesh tight ppl in early pos...) u want them to re-raise ur raise so u can jam it all in n stand up with ur hand on ur hips with a big cheesy grin on ur face showin that u've cracked their nice hand. But by the looks of it if he had AA u wud of lost anyway. So meh thats poker!!!