$400 NLHE Full Ring: Live $2/$5 QQ vs. preflop craziness, maybe I'm scared money

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baudib1

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$400 NL HE Full Ring: Live $2/$5 QQ vs. preflop craziness, maybe I'm scared money

My local club was running $2/$5 game instead of usual $1/$2 because some of the big are action players were in town. Not a huge deal because most of the $1/$2 games run like $2/$5 or bigger anyway.....it simply becomes more costly to bleed the blinds or to limp-fold preflop.

Action:
UTG, a player I know well and doesn't have huge regard for position, makes a min-raise to $10. Her range here is wider than most, most likely this is not a monster but a suited A/QJs/66 type hand.

UTG+1, an unknown but seems relatively tight, calls.

UTG+2, a huge maniac, calls. He could call with anything, honestly, I'd expect a reraise if he has any real hand...$10 bet to him is insulting.

CO, a VERY tight player I know well, pops it to $50. I would routinely fold AQo whenever she raises and play only hands that hit or miss the flop hard (pps) or monsters.

I have QQ in the BB. Controversy erupts as I grab $50 worth of chips, place them on the felt but behind my cards, and announce "Raise. One Hundred." A player calls string bet on me, UTG+1 argues that I made an official raise, CO says it's not a raise; the floor rules that it's a call.

UTG folds, UTG+1 calls quickly. UTG+2 says, "OK I'll make this easier for everyone. Three hundred."

CO looks at her cards, ponders, looks at me, and says, "It's not worth it."

To be honest, I am slightly nervous that UTG+1 is slowplaying AA because he really wanted the extra money in the pot, but it makes no sense for him just to flat and invite 2 other players behind.

A backraise of this sort from another player might make me fold but I think this guy has AK/JJ. I have $400 and he has $2000 and he typically bullies the table whenever he has chips. I'm not exactly in love with the idea of flipping here and that's my fault for playing above my comfort level -- I mean, shoving QQ for 80 BBs without a STRONG indication that KK/AA is out should be pretty standard, correct?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Shove and be happy about it. If you had raised to $100 were you planning to fold if someone came over the top? If so maybe the attempted raise wasn't such a great idea.
 
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baudib1

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Cool, thanks, I pretty much thought it was a no-brainer, I shoved and was...OK with it. being around live players who don't like to stack off with QQ pre puts my on tilt sometimes.

my thought process is this, I don't see anyone having AA/KK here except MAYBE the CO...and while CO is tight she knows how to play poker and can't sense any real strength up front...her squeeze was very likely to work and there's no doubt she has a hand but it doesn't have to be QQ+/AK.

Without a super indication that AA/KK are out, I'm OOP and flatting QQ here, and inviting 3-4 callers is gross, I would be turning my hand face up: 4-bet(calling a shove) > folding > flatting IMO. If we are crushed it's just the randomness of being out of position that does not afford us the luxury of getting away from bigger overpairs IMO.
 
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WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Yeah I mean you described him as a maniac so while he could be getting cute with AA preflop he's also probably doing this with lots of random pps (putting you on AK) and Ax sooted type hands.
 
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Zybomb

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Few things...

1) Unless you're describing your raising motion wrong, it's very clearly a raise assuming there isn't an official bet line on thetable which your cards and chips were both in front of. You're either describing something wrong, or your floor is very dumb

2) The reraise to $100 would have been bad. Flat the $50, or make a real raise. What's your intent when you reraise $100 if the reraiser shoves? This min reraise 'for information' isn't good. If youplan on stacking if they come back over the top then just reraise to $175 with the intent of calling the last $225 or getting it in on the flop. If you plan on folding, then just flat the $50 and reevaluate the flop

3) As played I'd dunno. I wanna say fold, since this guy is coming back over the top of a reraise and someone who wanted to 4 bet.... but is he really calling w KK or AA a UTG min raise and a caller with multiple players behind him? I'd have to think no so.....meh weird one
 
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baudib1

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1. yeah there was a lot of argument over what I did but I described it as I remembered doing it. The problem was half the people in the hand wanted it to stand and half didn't.

2. My intent was to isolate the pot between me and CO. To be honest, this isn't exactly +EV but I have such a long history with CO where I usually cooler her (I have AA vs. her KK, or I flop a set to crack her AA, she flops a straight and I turn a river, etc.) that I felt in my gut, "OK, she has KK and I'm going to finally double her up." She only had about $220 in front of her and her stacking off range is probably JJ+/AK, maybe TT/AQ if she feels I'm full of it and I'm OK with stacking against that range.

3. Yeah, I just can't see a player like him cold-calling behind with AA/KK and inviting like 5 other calls behind. He couldn't have been counting on getting popped by the people behind him. I pretty much felt he had exactly AK or something like JJ/TT and there's basically no way I'm folding QQ to this guy ever.
 
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TimmyOtool

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Well now that CO has folded and she was the only person that you were "afraid" of, I can't see you folding for your remaining stack when this bozo back raises.

Probably 4-1 favorite or have to dodge couple overcards, can't really give this guy AKo either...


And the moral of the story isssss.... play within the roll :)
 
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baudib1

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he had AKs and I flopped a set FTW. UTG -- 88, UTG+1 -- JJ, UTG+2 -- AKs, CO -- TT
 
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