$400 NLHE Full Ring: AQs on the BTN vs tight player

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LeGenie

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Hi guys I played an interesting hand at a 2/5 table yesterday and would like some feedback on the way I approached the hand.

Hero: $630
Villain: $800

3 players limp including villain in MP2. Hero opens on the BTN for $30. SB folds, BB calls and the other 3 limpers call.

The flop comes: 3:spade: 4:spade: Q:club: $152 in pot

It's checked around to me. I bet $100. It's folded around to villain in MP2 who raises to $300. Hero???

Hero has been on the DL since I sat down. He would limp on a straddled button then fold to a standard 3x open from the BTN. I haven't seen him call a raise with a marginal drawing hand and play spewy overall. Against a range of 33 and 44 I am in really bad shape. Even if I incorporate 34s,A2s,56s, and A6s I am still a 40 % underdog. Now even though I have not seen villain play any draws aggressively let's suppose he is in this spot. I could opt to call his raise and shove the turn on any non-spade and non straight card.

Thanks in advance for the feedback guys!
 
LD1977

LD1977

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Why shove? Default here is to just call and see what he does on the turn, try to see his sizing and generally get an idea if he is value betting a set or not.
 
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Henreiman

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Have to agree with LD here. It's simply stupidly unprofitable to isolate villain to a range of 44 and 33. The board is super draw heavy. We can't fold here unless we have a sicko read or we really know this guy is only playing the nuts, so get ready to call his barrel shove on the turn (his range to shove includes semi-bluffs so we'll be getting pot odds). A lot of turn cards can help us make a read as well if he slows down.
 
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LeGenie

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Have to agree with LD here. It's simply stupidly unprofitable to isolate villain to a range of 44 and 33. The board is super draw heavy. We can't fold here unless we have a sicko read or we really know this guy is only playing the nuts, so get ready to call his barrel shove on the turn (his range to shove includes semi-bluffs so we'll be getting pot odds). A lot of turn cards can help us make a read as well if he slows down.

This would mean call the flop raise then shove on a non-spade turn or a straight card.
 
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Henreiman

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This would mean call the flop raise then shove on a non-spade turn or a straight card.

It gets very situational but if he checks the next card I'm probably comfortable shoving.
 
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tomnovember

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Hi guys I played an interesting hand at a 2/5 table yesterday and would like some feedback on the way I approached the hand.

Hero: $630
Villain: $800

3 players limp including villain in MP2. Hero opens on the BTN for $30. SB folds, BB calls and the other 3 limpers call.

The flop comes: 3<font color='black'>♠</font> 4<font color='black'>♠</font> Q<font color='black'>♣</font> $152 in pot

It's checked around to me. I bet $100. It's folded around to villain in MP2 who raises to $300. Hero???

Hero has been on the DL since I sat down. He would limp on a straddled button then fold to a standard 3x open from the BTN. I haven't seen him call a raise with a marginal drawing hand and play spewy overall. Against a range of 33 and 44 I am in really bad shape. Even if I incorporate 34s,A2s,56s, and A6s I am still a 40 % underdog. Now even though I have not seen villain play any draws aggressively let's suppose he is in this spot. I could opt to call his raise and shove the turn on any non-spade and non straight card.

Thanks in advance for the feedback guys!

I think you may think of folding here. As there are 5 players in the pot, TPTK may probably be defeated. What is crucial is that villain plays quite tight passively all the time. So I don't think he will try to bluff or semibluff you here. As he has position against another 3 players, he can directly lead bet here with flush/straight draws as you may possibly miss the flop if you do not have a Q.
 
Mase31683

Mase31683

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Where are you guys coming up with calling here?

Reads on villain even include "Does not play draws aggressively"

Especially at live poker, so few players are capable of playing anything other than solid hands strongly.

I will never advise someone in a ring game to grit their teeth and stack off with TPTK nor put almost 1/2 their stack into the pot to "see where they're at". I'll tell you where you are, you're in a pot that's $700 with $300 behind that's about to get pushed at you on the turn and then you'll say, "But my pot odds were soooooooooooooooo good"

I think fold is by far the best play here. Sets have you smashed, flush draw you're slightly ahead (if he's playing his draw fast this time), not an enviable spot at all.
 
Mase31683

Mase31683

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It gets very situational but if he checks the next card I'm probably comfortable shoving.

I'm curious what you feel villain's range is, and what he's willing to stack off with. He's check/raised the flop indicating he either:

A) Can beat Queens
B) Is making a semi-bluff with spades
C) Is full of crap bluffing

If it's A) then yeah he'll call our shove and we just shoved into a better hand
If it's B/C and we shove a brick on the turn, then he's not calling

If we were to continue in the hand you'd really be hoping that he's the one committing on the turn because some % of the time that's a bluff, but I don't ever see him calling a shove with worse.
 
A2345Razz

A2345Razz

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I probably bet a little less on the flop....

Fold as played.

YOU DEFINITELY cannot call here and fold any turn, so whatever...

I muck.

As far as no one being able to play draws strong, I don't think you've recently played in a 2/5 or 5/10. Theyre a lot different than your typical 1/2 donkefest.
 
el_magiciann

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I think in this spot you should fold the flop, maybe you can tell that this is sick but i've been in the same spot against tight player and most of the time i was at the losing end against set, even if you call the re raise u can't shove or just check the turn, you just can't make better decision than folding agaisnt good tight player ...
 
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swingro

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I'm curious what you feel villain's range is, and what he's willing to stack off with. He's check/raised the flop indicating he either:

A) Can beat Queens
B) Is making a semi-bluff with spades
C) Is full of crap bluffing

If it's A) then yeah he'll call our shove and we just shoved into a better hand
If it's B/C and we shove a brick on the turn, then he's not calling

If we were to continue in the hand you'd really be hoping that he's the one committing on the turn because some % of the time that's a bluff, but I don't ever see him calling a shove with worse.

Actually your post makes the most sense even though prior your post I would had done what the other guys said:)
And another thing to observer. If we put half of our stack on the middle by the turn we should be ready to put all of it on the middle. Better shove on the flop and hope to some fold equity. Why did we called in the first place? And putting the stack on the middle with one pair when we do not know even if we are close giving his range is probably what every good player advise not to do.
 
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