Originally Posted by bgomez89
Basically he's saying calling or min 5betting is much better because it keeps hands in his range that we still beat, whereas when we 5bet shove he only calls with AA.
Postflop is irrelevant because your mistake was preflop
This. When we have big hands our thought process shouldn't be "OMG I don't want to get cracked by trash or called by too many players thus I'm going to bet HUGE!!!!"
Our thought process needs to be "How do I get weaker hands to call for more than they are worth so I can extract max value with my monster hand?"
And that is one powerful component to winning poker-- getting our villains to call for more than their hands are worth relative to our hands...
Originally Posted by postflopper
I have yet to see people fold KK preflop in cash games and don't think I ever will.
Then I guess you haven't played much deep stacked poker. I absolutely agree, 100bb deep to even 150bb deep no one folds KK preflop. But it is rare that you see 250bb+ preflop shoves that are not specifically AA vs KK.
The only reason to ever call a 250bb+ preflop shove with KK is when you have actual hand history and have personally witnessed a spewy villain who routinely gets it in 250BB+ deep with QQ, AK. Then by all means against this stack off monkey you can never fold KK. Otherwise, you are going to be correct in folding KK preflop to 250bb+ 5-bet shoves.
And again, the reason is simple. Very few players 5-bet shove 250bb preflop with QQ/AK. And preflop 5-bet shoving 250bb+ with KK is bad because youyou fold out JJ, QQ, and AK almost 100% of the time and ONLY get called by AA.