$400 NLHE Full Ring: 500NL live game, top set and nervous

I was playing at a 9 handed game of 500nl with some decent regulars.

Hero is around $1,000 (200bb) deep
Villain (BTN) is around $450 deep

I was in MP and held KdKc. UTG limps, I bet $20, BTN calls.

Flop: As Kc Qc

Pot is $65.

UTG checks, I bet $50, BTN tanks then calls, UTG folds.

Turn: Js

Pot is $165

I bet $100, BTN calls.

River 9s

Pot is $365

Hero...?

I knew the villain was calling fairly loose here, he has a tendency to be looser on the button than maybe he should.

On the flop I felt like it was a pretty safe value bet against 2 players, there are draws out there and with an A on the board I think someone likely calls a bet here with mostly worse hands. With the flush draw out there I think I get calls from that as well. Someone could have a pair and a draw (QT, KT, AT,) or even the straight (JT) but I certainly can't check here just because of that.

Turn I felt like this J should change much, maybe gives some back door draws that weren't there before, and potentially those T hands have made it. Both of these guys ranges should be broader than straights here. I am hoping for someone with either a strong draw, 2 pair, or something along those lines.

River, this completes some draws, doesn't really improve anyone to a straight, but I am now concerned that with no more cards to come I won't be getting a lot of calls except from the straight or someone who back doored the flush.

I would like to see some people's thoughts on this.

Also -I'm a dope, I had middle, not top set. Sorry for the misleading title.

Potential flush and straight came in, I would check-fold or call just if its a small bet in this situation, because his calling all the time seems like he was on a draw which the nine of spades completed.

How did the hand end?

rytciaq said:

Potential flush and straight came in, I would check-fold or call just if its a small bet in this situation, because his calling all the time seems like he was on a draw which the nine of spades completed.

How did the hand end?

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I'll let you know after a while I suppose, but I don't want the knowledge of how it ended to effect people's analysis.

Mostly I am interested in seeing what people do after that 9s hits and the villain has like $230 left in a $365 pot.

Also, I have trouble folding here. I think I could certainly get a few bluffs, or get a value bet form worse (like AJ or AQ).

I think if he turned the straight u would have found out on the turn. His range is wider than straights. River? Ummmmm maybe a tiny blocker bet? Tbh nothing sounds good to me. You can't b/f.... You can't really x/c.... When you shove river you will mostly be getting calls from hands that beat you.

I think you have two options, neither of which are really good options, but they are the best of the worst. x/f river because the board is so wet, he will likely only bet hands that beat us. Or.... Bet like 50 dollars for thin value. He folds missed draws, he calls with some hands we can beat, he shoves hands that beat us and we can fold without putting too much more into the pot. I think very thin value is good here, because if we check it to villain he might shove regardless of whether or not his hand is made. Then we are forced to play the guessing game. With a small bet on river, he will probably only shove over with the goods and not often will be bluff shove.

Also when we put out that blocker bet.... Villain can no longer really imagine having any fold equity (even though he does) id say its very doubtful he would shove over your bet without the goods.

Jblocher1 said:

I think if he turned the straight u would have found out on the turn. His range is wider than straights. River? Ummmmm maybe a tiny blocker bet? Tbh nothing sounds good to me. You can't b/f.... You can't really x/c.... When you shove river you will mostly be getting calls from hands that beat you.

I think you have two options, neither of which are really good options, but they are the best of the worst. x/f river because the board is so wet, he will likely only bet hands that beat us. Or.... Bet like 50 dollars for thin value. He folds missed draws, he calls with some hands we can beat, he shoves hands that beat us and we can fold without putting too much more into the pot. I think very thin value is good here, because if we check it to villain he might shove regardless of whether or not his hand is made. Then we are forced to play the guessing game. With a small bet on river, he will probably only shove over with the goods and not often will be bluff shove.

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^^^+1

There is something amiss in the hand you posted. You held the Kc and another one hit the flop.

Gross gross gross spot to be in OOP, checking is really the only option and calling or folding depends on the sizing. I am quite the river calling station so folding would be hard. If you plan on calling a shove anyway should you shove first? Or put out a small bet of maybe 1/3rdish pot?

Tough spot, interested to see what some of the higher thinking members of CC have to say.

I would have checked on the turn and check raised if I was bet into. If the guy has a ten, we will know and a flush draw has to fold. We would be repping a hand like AT or TT and even if we get called by a ten, we have outs to boat up and get some more money on the river. Our hand is a bit disguised because we were repping a straight on the turn. But we could up getting into a levelling war especially with people play at this level (depends on your opponent).

If opponent checks back, it is blocker bet time. If we get raised, we can fold unless we boat up (which we didn't in this case). Or check, if you believe we can get a check back if we don't improve. But again, we could be in a situation of levelling wars if we do blocker bet.

hobonc said:

^^^+1

There is something amiss in the hand you posted. You held the Kc and another one hit the flop.

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Thanks! sorry I had 2 red kings. My mistake.

hobonc said:

^^^+1

There is something amiss in the hand you posted. You held the Kc and another one hit the flop.

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I noticed that too.. Don't let the rigtards see this

IPlay said:

Gross gross gross spot to be in OOP, checking is really the only option and calling or folding depends on the sizing. I am quite the river calling station so folding would be hard. If you plan on calling a shove anyway should you shove first? Or put out a small bet of maybe 1/3rdish pot?

Tough spot, interested to see what some of the higher thinking members of CC have to say.

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I'm thinking a bit smaller than 1/3.... Maybe like 1/5? Lol. We have to recognize that he will jam over fairly often. Can we actually bet 120 and then fold when he shoves like 100 more? Might as well just shove if that's what we were planning.

This spot literally makes me want to throw up. Lol

I'm glad other people had the same reaction I did. I feel pretty confident in my game and I just couldn't see what the best move was.

I mean, there are hands that we beat that make it here, but there also should be hands we are just crushed by.

I am discounting the straight, but it could happen some of the time.

The confusing thing (if you need more confusion) is that he is normally an aggressive player.

Jblocher1 said:

Also when we put out that blocker bet.... Villain can no longer really imagine having any fold equity (even though he does) id say its very doubtful he would shove over your bet without the goods.

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I think this is a good point. If you bet, then you should not be expecting bluffs over the top of you very often. Still get some calls from the hands you beat, and you can still fold to a shove.

Very good point.

Calling on every street means most of the times drawing hand, or weak A. I think its most of the times he will beat your set in that spot.

el_magiciann said:

Calling on every street means most of the times drawing hand, or weak A. I think its most of the times he will beat your set in that spot.

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Why?

What indicates that his hand improved by calling every street? It would need to very specifically be a hand that needs a T to complete the straight AND a hand that was 4 to the flush on the turn. What hand is that?

like 89 of spades? AK of spades?

AK of spades may raise us preflop. So I discount it a little.

What hands are beating the set that are here in this manner?

I dunno.... Qx spades? There's not really that many flushes he has. I would think a straight is probably more likely. Hand like 10 10?

As played its pretty much never AK of spades. It makes no sense. I'm gonna stick with thin value bet and fold to shove, as the best of the worst options lol

I'm inclined to c/f, I just see any 2 pair hands call and the top of his potential calling range is like AJ and QJ is just not going to call. Most of his range has sdv so I can't see him turning 2 pair into a bluff, especially if you think he gives you credit for checking some nuts on the tiver

I think x/f is probably the right move. I don't think there is much value in the bet.

RESULTS:

I checked, he checked back, turned over Ac4c for a pair of A's and a flush draw.

whew.

But see that's the kind of hand u can get a tiny bit of extra value from on the river, because he probably calls there and hands like that are a large portion of his range.

Villain played this so bad lol. He could have at least jammed river when checked to, to at least rep something. Then this thread would be titled " da **** do I do now???!!!" lol

highly doubt we get called on the river.

50 into a pot of 365? I think we will get calls fairly often. We give the dude better than 7:1

An we give him the chance to bluff raise us

I'll go with the blocking bet, but $100 ish rather than $50 ish.

A bigT is in everyone's range, including yours, so villain might see it as a way to limit rake, and not jam on you if he holds one, figuring it will be a split pot. If he does jam back at you, I'd figure flush.

As stated, you beat a lot of 2P hands, and busted draws.

duggs said:

An we give him the chance to bluff raise us

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By checking we allow him to bluff shove us? What's the difference? When we bet the river at all.... Can he think he has FE? IMO he is far more likely to bluff shove when we check it to him, as opposed to when we go for thin value

Check/call river.