$400 NLHE Full Ring: 500nl big pot

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kanselau

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the table is full of fish alot of limping going on and passive play 2 good regs on table the btn and UTG.
hero has got a preety good image and one of the chip stack leaders on the table
hero dealt 10cJc on CO
ACTION
UTG raises 15 , 3 players call , HERO calls , BTN calls , SB calls BB raises to $60 (has 200 behind)
UTG calls, 2 players call , HERO calls , BTN calls , SB folds
pot (390) FLOP Ac Jd 9c
BB goes all in for 200, 3 folds , HERO calls , BTN ( who is a good reg ) all in for $800 , HERO has $875 stack and calls?
BB range AA- JJ , AK- AJ
BTN range AJ, KcQc, 99 , J9s
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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You have to call, the pot odds are just too good at this point as you really can't narrow the BTN to just the better flush hand.

When a passive limping table gets this much action, I'm dumping JTs preflop very easily.
 
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Aldito

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Fold pre. Flatting 1/3 of the 3bettor's stack is pretty bad.

As played it's a prett easy call after already putting in $200.

You need to call $600 into a pot of $1600 with a pair and FD
 
Deco

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Aldito said:
Fold pre. Flatting 1/3 of the 3bettor's stack is pretty bad.

As played it's a prett easy call after already putting in $200.

You need to call $600 into a pot of $1600 with a pair and FD
Click to expand...

Jillychemung said:
You have to call, the pot odds are just too good at this point as you really can't narrow the BTN to just the better flush hand.

When a passive limping table gets this much action, I'm dumping JTs preflop very easily.
Click to expand...

Ditto
 
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kanselau

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Jillychemung said:
You have to call, the pot odds are just too good at this point as you really can't narrow the BTN to just the better flush hand.

When a passive limping table gets this much action, I'm dumping JTs preflop very easily.
Click to expand...
Please explain why dumping JTs pre with good position getting 7 to 1 pot odds at a week table is so horrible. Imo a perfect spot to stack a fish for his stack?
What must be considered is that the table has gone limp all the way to the BB who checks alot of the time or raise and heaps of callers . If we hit our hand good we are playing for stacks as soon as the flop hits with excellent implied odds . Few hands earlier I stacked a player for 100BB when he held Q10o on a QJ4 board , so if I hit my hand good im getting paid.
 
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kanselau

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Aldito said:
Fold pre. Flatting 1/3 of the 3bettor's stack is pretty bad.

As played it's a prett easy call after already putting in $200.

You need to call $600 into a pot of $1600 with a pair and FD
Click to expand...
Must admit that calling 3bettors 1/3 stack with a speculative hand is going to be EV- play and if not for table dynamics an easy fold agains this opponent HU or even 3 way . For me this was a situational call as we are not playing for the value of getting UTG $200 stack , but for the huge pot/implied odds post flop with effective stack at around $600.
we need to call $800 into a pot of $1600 must call on flop.
 
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Snapcall..just hope its not set vs draw vs draw.

Fold pre..call call is too high variance imo. You say when you hit a flop...what flop? 3 low clubs..gonna ship 1k? 8910 flop..now what? too many ac4c and qj or q10 to win consistently vs 7 fish.

I love n make a killing off tables like the ones you're describing..by isolating, using premiums tho. Why give into superhigh variance routes when you feel you have a big edge?
 
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kanselau

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Poker_play said:
Snapcall..just hope its not set vs draw vs draw.

Fold pre..call call is too high variance imo. You say when you hit a flop...what flop? 3 low clubs..gonna ship 1k? 8910 flop..now what? too many ac4c and qj or q10 to win consistently vs 7 fish.

I love n make a killing off tables like the ones you're describing..by isolating, using premiums tho. Why give into superhigh variance routes when you feel you have a big edge?
Click to expand...
because if you dont get the fish money then the other 2 regs on the table will with less then premium , in the 9 hour session I got KK once AK , AQ a couple of times and thats it , so IMO waiting for premium is loosing heaps of value.
A few hands earlier I stacked a player ($500) with QJo on a QdJh4s board , this player comited his wholestack with TP shit kicker. I do understand what you mean about high varience situation though fish do get lucky too.
 
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Didn't mean to stress premiums too much..I play a super wide range to get after fish as well sometimes. That said, pick your spots...mediocre hand vs 7 others? Only way ur beating all of them in that pot is showdown..so you need to hit near nuts. You're not gonna outplay anyone in that typpe of hand..if they hit flop, they're in.

If you're playing those suited connectors..imo anyway..be aggressor preflop, isolate (vs 1 or 2 fish preferably), in position. Don't need miracles to hit then, ya know?

Not hating, jus commenting cause I used to do the exact same thing. Used to love having 8 callers pre lol.

Iinterested in results later!
 
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kanselau

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Poker_play said:
Didn't mean to stress premiums too much..I play a super wide range to get after fish as well sometimes. That said, pick your spots...mediocre hand vs 7 others? Only way ur beating all of them in that pot is showdown..so you need to hit near nuts. You're not gonna outplay anyone in that typpe of hand..if they hit flop, they're in.

If you're playing those suited connectors..imo anyway..be aggressor preflop, isolate (vs 1 or 2 fish preferably), in position. Don't need miracles to hit then, ya know?

Not hating, jus commenting cause I used to do the exact same thing. Used to love having 8 callers pre lol.

Iinterested in results later!
Click to expand...
Yea I definetly see where your coming from unless you hit the nuts no room to outplay the weaker players if theres 5 of them. What probably gets me is the massive pot odds the second time around , I was looking at $45 into $300 pot , and I know BTN is calling here also. Thats like 7-1 crazy and its not like your looking at 72o very tempting call pre.
 
Deco

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kanselau said:
Please explain why dumping JTs pre with good position getting 7 to 1 pot odds at a week table is so horrible. Imo a perfect spot to stack a fish for his stack?
Click to expand...

Because you have put in in 15bbs and 30% of the 3betters effective stack. You also do not have position, you may get 4bet or may get callers with position on you.
Suited connecters are nice when we get in cheap and see a flop with a nice big stack to pot ratio so we can exert maximum pressure with our draws.

You've only mentioned two of the players stack sizes. Even the 200bb one only has a SPR of 2 on this flop. 6 to 1 (270/45) odds are no good if your only going to flop a non-nut straight or flush like 3% of the time and your unlikely to get any folds with your draws or get it in good with your pairs. The pairs will likely get you stacked more often than not.

Flopping flushes and straights is rare. The power of suited connectors is in their draws. Our draws folding power are very much neutered in such big multiway pots.
 
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kanselau

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Deco said:
Because you have put in in 15bbs and 30% of the 3betters effective stack. You also do not have position, you may get 4bet or may get callers with position on you.
Suited connecters are nice when we get in cheap and see a flop with a nice big stack to pot ratio so we can exert maximum pressure with our draws.

You've only mentioned two of the players stack sizes. Even the 200bb one only has a SPR of 2 on this flop. 6 to 1 (270/45) odds are no good if your only going to flop a non-nut straight or flush like 3% of the time and your unlikely to get any folds with your draws or get it in good with your pairs. The pairs will likely get you stacked more often than not.

Flopping flushes and straights is rare. The power of suited connectors is in their draws. Our draws folding power are very much neutered in such big multiway pots.
Click to expand...
thankyou for your explanation it makes perfect sence :tee:
 
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kanselau

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turn is a 2c so feeling preety good
river is Jh
BB shows AA and wins main pot
BTN shows J9 and wins side pot
 
BelgoSuisse

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Given the reads and the 3bet size, I would say that BB's range is exactly [AA].
 
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