$400 NLHE Full Ring: $500 NLHE LIVE

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sactokid544

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Hero is BB with $1100.
Villain 1 ($975) - UTG
Villain 2 ($500) - UTG2
Villain 3 ($300) - SB

Reads: Villain 1, never played with before. But generally raises EP to $15 or $20. Seems straight-forward so far. Doubled-up with big PP vs big PP.
Villain 2, bad LAG. Already re-bought 4 times. $500 is max BI.
Villain 3, super-tight. Pretty straight-forward

UTG open-raises $125!! holywtfbatman. lolz

Villain 2 flats. Villain 3 flats in SB. holywtfbatman! lolz

Hero has QQ. Hero? I'm just laughing at how funky this spot is.

Effective stacks are small cause Villain 3 but original raiser basically has a 200bb stack, same as hero. I honestly have no idea what to do. Villain 1 has never raised anything remotely close to $125 in this session. He hasn't even 3bet yet.
 
acky100

acky100

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I think i'd just raise/call. Its a weird raise size and i dont know why someone would do this with AA or KK, it seems more like a vulnerable hand that he wants to play quickly, perhaps TT or JJ. Theres tons of money in the pot i'd gamble with QQ against these guys, most likely bad scenario is we're flipping against AK with lots of sexy dead money. I might be way off cause i dont play live but i can't see anything else going down and i dont wanna fold my QQ with a terrible player and lots of potentially dead money in the pot.
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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Thoughts:
If you raise and UTG shoves most likely UTG2 will call since he's stuck and this a a great spot for him to triple up. Heck UTG2 will probably stack here anyway.
Would SB flat AA/KK here?
Is your image one where UTG2/SB may be expecting a squeeze from you?
Has UTG taken any river/turn beats where s/he played a bit too passively?

Action:
If my reads were that UTG was 'protecting' AQ/AK/QQ/JJ/TT etc. and SB could not flat AA/KK then I'd just shove and expect UTG2 to call.

If my reads left me feeling very uncomfortable, fold.
 
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Trimming1

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I flatten only pre-flop. I am trapping here and hoping to hit my set. even with a small flop I would think I am still ahead here. Letting the flop come off is a better play in this spot. you want to keep the lag player involved.
 
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sactokid544

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Thoughts:
If you raise and UTG shoves most likely UTG2 will call since he's stuck and this a a great spot for him to triple up. Heck UTG2 will probably stack here anyway.
Would SB flat AA/KK here?
Is your image one where UTG2/SB may be expecting a squeeze from you?
Has UTG taken any river/turn beats where s/he played a bit too passively?

Action:
If my reads were that UTG was 'protecting' AQ/AK/QQ/JJ/TT etc. and SB could not flat AA/KK then I'd just shove and expect UTG2 to call.

If my reads left me feeling very uncomfortable, fold.

UTG2 is actually the one on tilt. UTG isn't. SB isn't flatting KK+ and I'm positive he isn't waiting for a squeeze. Even if I didn't know the SB, his stack-size kinda tells me he isn't waiting for a squeeze but he has some sort of TT/JJ hand that he just can't let go. In order for me to squeeze in that spot, I'm going to have to do it with big cards because I believe I don't have too much fold equity.

I agree, that shoving might be the best play.
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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Given your reads, the easy way to play it is to just shove, no more decisions and with your reads you'll most likely be heads up with UTG2 although once UTG2 calls I don't know why SB wouldn't call too getting almost 4-1. Also shoving has the potential to create a larger side pot than the main pot if everyone calls.

If you really feel you have the best hand here then 3-bet to $500 just to tilt UTG2 some more :)
 
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cheaptrix

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crazy spot. i'm gonna be a super nit and say just fold. i don't understand V3 flatting out of the SB with only $300, especially if your super-tight read is correct.
V3 is obviously committed, V2 is probably not going anywhere and who knows what the hell V1 is doing???

i'd just quietly muck and not worry too much about the results. hopefully you will see a showdown and pick up some new info.
it's just too easy to pick up pots in late position for me to gamble in a 4-way pot that is likely to go to showdown for nearly 200bb's with QQ imo.
 
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sactokid544

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What actually happened is that I flatted because in the moment, I honestly wasn't sure what to do. The raise was 11% of my stack. And I wasn't sure if folding was a bigger mistake or not because of pot size. And I wasn't sure if raising was +EV... In the heat of the moment, this decision sucked until...

Flop QJ2r

SB had JJ, he led out and shipped. LOL!!

Hero? Flat right?

Or is there any merit to shipping to entice a call? Maybe my ship will look weaker because of board texture? My ship reps a set but since there aren't many good draws other than the ISDs; it won't make sense to ship because a set would want a call to get more action, therefore our ship gets called because villain think's we're shipping to steal a big pot? Plus our ship builds a HUGE pot.
 
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Poker_play

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Ship pre.
With thse reads, this is typical lol live play..your qq is almost always way ahead.
I resist getting greedy and min raising because you don't want so many in the pot. However, min raising puts you on track to have a much bigger pot and if you can avoid an a, k or set mine..def good situation. I prefer shove, hopefully isolates.

Folding and callin both bad imo.

As played, shipppppppp. Lol live players do stupid shit for huge pots
 
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sactokid544

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Thanks.

Question.. At which stakes do "lol live" players become 'good' players?

$1000 NL? $2000NL? higher?
 
bgomez89

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Folding and shipping pre seem beyond retarded.

Raise/call could be an option but I think I'd rather 3bet fold against UTG and 3bet call v2/sb
 
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cheaptrix

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Folding and shipping pre seem beyond retarded.

Raise/call could be an option but I think I'd rather 3bet fold against UTG and 3bet call v2/sb

are you really going to 3bet/fold? the pot is about $380, a 3bet commits us.
calling is the worst option. imo
 
JOEBOB69

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Folding and shipping pre seem beyond retarded.

Raise/call could be an option but I think I'd rather 3bet fold against UTG and 3bet call v2/sb
what would your 3bet size look like here?Mine, would be small $275-$310.Flatting wouldn't be the worst thing in the world but i would lean towards the 3bet.
 
bgomez89

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are you really going to 3bet/fold? the pot is about $380, a 3bet commits us.
calling is the worst option. imo

Shit you're probably right. We're just really deep and I don't think utg with 4bet shove with worse too often considering it's live. Fwiw id probably bump to 500
 
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Poker_play

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$2/5 Id say sacto, depends on the table though. You'll get some $2/5 tables that are just full of really good players...but sometimes still get awful donks.

On $5/10 (NL $1000) for sure you're playing with the sharks..definitely not lol live play anymore.
 
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