$400 NLHE Full Ring: $500 NLHE Live

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sactokid544

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Posting this because I want to know what range of hands you guys would be doing this with? And whether you are shipping or raising?

$500 NLHE live

Hero is UTG with $330. Down some after a couple pots from my initial buy-in.

I initially look at my hand and I see AKs. I begin to grab chips but haven't grabbed them yet, when UTG+1 limps out of turn. UTG+2 raises out of turn, to $25.

Dealer realizes that I haven't acted and freezes action after the raiser. Because the raiser MUST keep the $25 in the pot unless I opt to 3bet, I decide to limp $5 because I will have another action pre.

Folds to SB who is a big fish. He calls $25, BB folds.

Reads:

UTG+2 has kind of a wide opening range. K9s+,A6s+,22+, I estimate.

SB will call ANYTHING suited, connected, pair, broadway including AQ,AK. Never 3bets. So him calling doesn't mean much. Just means he wants to play. I saw him do the same with AA and QQ.

Hero? I know I am 3betting here. How much? Ship?


EDIT: I forgot to put stack-sizes

UTG+1: $200
UTG+2: $240
SB: $520
Hero: $330
 
Jurn8

Jurn8

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go like 90 and just call it off, he has 60BB or so
 
Jillychemung

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$90 to $100 sounds right since the SB is likely to call if UTG+2 also calls.
 
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sactokid544

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If we 3bet to $100, what happens if we whiff flop? SPR is <1 when we assume UTG+2 and SB call.

It's basically like a stop-n-go at this point and all of our pre-flop equity from AK is based on the fact that AK likes 5 cards.

If we know fish calls if UTG+2 calls, is there any merit to shipping it pre? If UTG+2 was going to call $100, is it possible he was going to to call the rest of his stack off anyways?
 
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baudib1

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I shove to avoid awkward spots where we raise to $100 and both flat.
 
bgomez89

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I like raising to 100 obv calling if utg2 shoves. If we whiff the flop, I'd probably check to utg2 and see what happens. I have a feeling if I were to put utg2 in, I'd end up just bluffing my whole stack off to a fish who won't fold
 
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sactokid544

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I shove to avoid awkward spots where we raise to $100 and both flat.
This was my line of thinking.
I Actually shipped pre. UTG+2.. ALMOST.. called. Would have been interesting if he did. :)
 
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sactokid544

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... If we whiff the flop, I'd probably check to utg2 and see what happens. I have a feeling if I were to put utg2 in, I'd end up just bluffing my whole stack off to a fish who won't fold
Ya. I basically didn't want to have to check if we whiff, which happens the majority of the time. And I don't like bluffing fish. So I shipped pre.
 
Deco

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I shove pre.
$125 would be my normal raise size here, seeing as it's over a third of the effective stacks I ship instead.

With a stronger hand (QQ+) I may make a smaller bet and ship the flop but AK will miss most the time and is not as good against random hands so I really don't mind folds at this point/
 
Jillychemung

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...but AK will miss most the time and is not as good against random hands ...

I don't understand the reluctance to treat AK better. AK against a random hand wins 2 outta 3, heck even against top 30% hands it's still a 64% winner. Yeah with AK we want to see all 5 cards so the shove preflop makes our decisions easier but even for me a shove preflop here is a massive overbet.
 
Deco

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I don't understand the reluctance to treat AK better. AK against a random hand wins 2 outta 3, heck even against top 30% hands it's still a 64% winner. Yeah with AK we want to see all 5 cards so the shove preflop makes our decisions easier but even for me a shove preflop here is a massive overbet.

Meanwhile QQ is 80% against a random hand. It's a significant difference.
QQ is going to be a discrete overpair on 65% of flops whilst AK will miss 65% of flops or be a blatent toppair that 35% of the time we hit.

It may seem like a huge overbet but a normal sized raise puts half the effective stacks in. Even the opening raise makes up over 10% of the effective stacks as our villains are only 40bb deep.
 
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sactokid544

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I don't understand the reluctance to treat AK better. AK against a random hand wins 2 outta 3, heck even against top 30% hands it's still a 64% winner. Yeah with AK we want to see all 5 cards so the shove preflop makes our decisions easier but even for me a shove preflop here is a massive overbet.
I think there are definitely other situations where we can 'treat AK better' but I think those are in situations where villains are deeper and there is post-flop play.

I think in this situation, we get max equity by seeing 5 cards against shallow effective stacks, so lets see 5 cards..

As Deco points out with QQ, we don't need 5 cards. So, if we 3bet to $100 and villains flat, we can potentially cause villains to make another mistake by betting the flop again, whereas our initial shove would cause them to fold.
 
JOEBOB69

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Top off when you drop down to ~$400
agreed with the ship
 
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