$400 NLHE Full Ring: $500 NL Live

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sactokid544

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Hero: $500 Villain: $445
Villain seems straight forward. No real reads I sat down 1 orbit ago.
Villain limps UTG, folds to hero on SB with AcAd.
Hero raises to $25. BB folds, villain flats, heads up to the flop.
Flop: AKQ all spades.
Hero bets $40, villain thinks, and raises to $140 total.
Villian has about $280 behind.
Hero?
 
Jillychemung

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Shove. Most villains would'nt be betting the nuts here so without any real reads I'm shoving expecting a call most of the time with their draws.
 
frozensprx

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this is a pretty easy shove. Obviously it is much harder to make the decision without any reads on the player, but what type of hands would someone limp UTG then call a big raise? Obviously it is very unlikely he did it with JT, so really the only other hands are pocket pairs that probably have a spade in them.
 
Ducky7

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this is a pretty easy shove. Obviously it is much harder to make the decision without any reads on the player, but what type of hands would someone limp UTG then call a big raise? Obviously it is very unlikely he did it with JT, so really the only other hands are pocket pairs that probably have a spade in them.

JT is a big part of his range here imo, if he limps UTG it is clear he is a weak player who wouldnt understand why its bad to limp call JTs and wont fold it pre "coz its too pretty, and when you hit the flop you make loads"

Have to GII coz we have top set and have outs if we are behind
 
frozensprx

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Well actually if he is a weak player then he would likely play the hand the same if he had A2s as if he had JTs, so folding still isn't a good option because there are so many hands you are way ahead of with top set, and as stated you still have clean outs unless he flopped a royal flush. lol.
 
WVHillbilly

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JT is a big part of his range here imo, if he limps UTG it is clear he is a weak player who wouldnt understand why its bad to limp call JTs and wont fold it pre "coz its too pretty, and when you hit the flop you make loads"

Have to GII coz we have top set and have outs if we are behind
JT is def. in range but we have what ~35% equity when were behind and you're going to see him show up with hands like AxJs/KxJs/QxJs too. Possible that he would even play KQ like this.
 
Ducky7

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JT is def. in range but we have what ~35% equity when were behind and you're going to see him show up with hands like AxJs/KxJs/QxJs too. Possible that he would even play KQ like this.

Oh yeah i agree, didnt feel the need to comment about his range as i figured everyone thought these were the type of hands we could put him on, ye i think he defo plays KQ this way, maybe even AQ and AK lol, people are funny live
 
Four Dogs

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Hero says YAY and merrily shoves every last penny into the middle of the pot knowing that he's probably good and is only a 2:1 dog against a made flush.
 
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So this is a real question, not a troll or joke.

I understand why we would shove, but doesn't shoving give him correct pot odds to draw to the straight/flush/both?

I assume he is on one, probably both of those draws. Say he flatted your raise with something like AsX or maybe JsQo. If he is really such a fish, maybe he even has some middle pocket pair that contains a spade, or he has the J etc. Point being, he could easily have one spade and or part of that straight.

If he is 4-flush with 2 cards to come, then he is a 1.86:1 dog. When we shove, he will be getting 650:280 pot odds = 2.3:1.

If we just call the $140, then he would have bet $140 to win $230 = 1.6:1

fold equity cannot really be calculated like this and could change the decision making, but I do not think that most of the group is saying to shove for fold equity.

Have at it. Why is this incorrect?

Thanks
 
WVHillbilly

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So this is a real question, not a troll or joke.

I understand why we would shove, but doesn't shoving give him correct pot odds to draw to the straight/flush/both?

I assume he is on one, probably both of those draws. Say he flatted your raise with something like AsX or maybe JsQo. If he is really such a fish, maybe he even has some middle pocket pair that contains a spade, or he has the J etc. Point being, he could easily have one spade and or part of that straight.

If he is 4-flush with 2 cards to come, then he is a 1.86:1 dog. When we shove, he will be getting 650:280 pot odds = 2.3:1.

If we just call the $140, then he would have bet $140 to win $230 = 1.6:1

fold equity cannot really be calculated like this and could change the decision making, but I do not think that most of the group is saying to shove for fold equity.

Have at it. Why is this incorrect?

Thanks

I'm not shoving for FE. Straight value.
 
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sactokid544

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So this is a real question, not a troll or joke.

I understand why we would shove, but doesn't shoving give him correct pot odds to draw to the straight/flush/both?

I assume he is on one, probably both of those draws. Say he flatted your raise with something like AsX or maybe JsQo. If he is really such a fish, maybe he even has some middle pocket pair that contains a spade, or he has the J etc. Point being, he could easily have one spade and or part of that straight.

If he is 4-flush with 2 cards to come, then he is a 1.86:1 dog. When we shove, he will be getting 650:280 pot odds = 2.3:1.

If we just call the $140, then he would have bet $140 to win $230 = 1.6:1

fold equity cannot really be calculated like this and could change the decision making, but I do not think that most of the group is saying to shove for fold equity.

Have at it. Why is this incorrect?

Thanks
I think that flatting the raise is bad because it opens up the opportunity to win money while we are ahead, given he is on a draw.
So, if we flat I envision a couple possibilities:
1. Turn is a flush card and we c/f. Bad because we still have equity in a big pot.
2. Turn bricks. If we check, we are giving a free card essentially because he can check behind. If we lead-shove, this kind of contradictory since we should have just done it while we had the biggest chance of getting called. He might fold if the turn bricks.
 
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sactokid544

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Just realized my last post didnt make sense. Lol. Im typing from my phone.
Calling I think is bad because it "reduces the opportunity to win more money while we are ahead"
That's what I meant. Lol
 
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You dont have enough money to do anything but fold or shove, if we are behind, we are never drawing dead and there are more two pair combos than anything, so im never folding with being this shallow, this spr,ect. if he has flush or straight and we miss, nice hand sir, reload
 
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