$400 NLHE 6-max: River top 2 but villain wagering 3 barrels

hackmeplz

hackmeplz

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Just started playing on the site (no autoreload so that's why I don't have 100bb) so neither of us have many hands on each other. he's like 22/18 over 50 hands I generally play ~24/21.

$2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players

SB: $472.80
BB: $400.00
UTG: $420.90
Hero (CO): $362.00
BTN: $879.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is CO with K :heart: A :diamond:
UTG raises to $12, Hero calls $12, 3 folds

Flop: ($30.00) K :diamond: 7 :spade: 8 :spade: (2 players)
UTG bets $24, Hero calls $24

Turn: ($78.00) Q :diamond: (2 players)
UTG bets $54, Hero calls $54

River: ($186.00) A :spade: (2 players)
UTG bets $118, Hero ???

I think generally both of our ranges are pretty strong here, but I have top 2!
 
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swingro

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I may not comprehend this lvls because i am a micro player but isn't the flop the place when you reraise to protect your hand?
As played i think we ship it on the river. You absoltely crush his range.
ext results appended to pokerstove.txt
37,620 games 0.000 secs 7,524,000 games/sec
Board: Kd 7s 8s
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 27.915% 20.61% 07.30% 7755 2746.50 { QQ+, ATs+, KJs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 72.085% 64.78% 07.30% 24372 2746.50 { AdKh }
 
 
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Marginal

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Flat call, I dont think we can raise just cause I dont believe hes calling with much worse but our hand is also very underrepped to the point that he can very well be value betting a lot worse here. I also wont be very surprised for him to flip 77/88 here very often.
 
hackmeplz

hackmeplz

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fwiw I'm debating calling vs. folding, I really want to fold.
 
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Marginal

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fwiw I'm debating calling vs. folding, I really want to fold.

Yea I can see that and I agree thats your only choice. I still dont think we can fold though. I dont think we are ever crushing here but I still think its hard to fold to an unknown.
 
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Gunner57

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As played I would call. He is an unknown so he could have a number of two pairs. Either way I think we have some showdown value.

Against and unknown I would raise the turn. On the river I would check/call.

My guess is he has AQ, AK, or a set.
 
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Marginal

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As played I would call. He is an unknown so he could have a number of two pairs. Either way I think we have some showdown value.

Against and unknown I would raise the turn. On the river I would check/call.

My guess is he has AQ, AK, or a set.

well I doubt he ever has AQ cause AQ doesnt really bet the turn, If that leaves us with AK or a set then we should be folding.
 
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The Messiah

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^ I would, and it too would still be for value.

Raise, GII on the flop.
As played we kinda have to call but were not exactly happy about doing so.
 
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Marginal

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^ I would, and it too would still be for value.

Raise, GII on the flop.
As played we kinda have to call but were not exactly happy about doing so.

What do we achieve by raising flop and getting it in? Like hes not spazzing on the flop and getting it in with KJ etc.
 
The Messiah

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He's not going to fold his draws, which there are a lot, and since he's oop he will have to 3 bet more often than not, hence stacking is more common to occur on the flop rather than any other street.
I'm assuming if he's competent he's going to be defending fairly light too, hence we can get thinner value from dominated hands.
I could go on.
Hungry/
 
youregoodmate

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^ I would, and it too would still be for value.

Raise, GII on the flop.
As played we kinda have to call but were not exactly happy about doing so.

I wouldnt bet the turn with AQ. Raising the flop is pretty pointless, we fold out everything that we have crushed.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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..he raised UTG and bet a K87ss flop, he's not stacking weak draws.. by raising we just get him to fold worse a lot.

on top of the fact we're IP, the flops a flat most of the time here?
 
youregoodmate

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..he raised UTG and bet a K87ss flop, he's not stacking weak draws.. by raising we just get him to fold worse a lot.

on top of the fact we're IP, the flops a flat most of the time here?

All the time.
 
The Messiah

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What flops do ye raise TPTK for value then?
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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more OOP where we have air/draws in our range so villians will flat with worse IP.

here he just bet folds everything, massive draws/better gii obv

imo river is kinda a fold, depends on how often villains bluffing here and the fact villain raised UTG, bet 3 streets, the order the card came in, the fact the draw got there and he bets anyway and he's an unknown makes me give him a stronger range OTR.
 
The Messiah

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This is prob the perfect flop to do so. Don't think I could make up a better one tbh.
 
ChuckTs

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I can't think of a reason not to 3bet preflop.
 
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nidal55

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There are two cases for him to 2barrel i think. One is a combo draw which he hit and the other is kq hitting two(set) not worrying about flushes at this point of the hand setting his own price bet-folding. Calling is good but i think were loosing almost for sure.
 
Jurn8

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Flat call, I dont think we can raise just cause I dont believe hes calling with much worse but our hand is also very underrepped to the point that he can very well be value betting a lot worse here. I also wont be very surprised for him to flip 77/88 here very often.

This plays a huge part in the hand for me, it increases his bluff % imo.
He can rep an incredibly strong perceived range & also turn stuff into bluffs on the river to bet you off the middle of your range as the board ran out pretty good.
 
acky100

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wow this looks like a really tough spot, might go away and flopzilla this one.

What did you choose to do and can you explain your thought process?

Don't like a flop raise.
 
hackmeplz

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I folded river. I thought he had close to 0 worse value and that he didn't have enough bluff combos to call.
 
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baudib1

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Think I'm with Jurn, our hand is pretty underrepped. One of those spots he can't expect us to have top 2.
 
ChuckTs

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Think I'm with Jurn, our hand is pretty underrepped. One of those spots he can't expect us to have top 2.

How much worse do we realistically have here?

We called utg vs co and called flop and turn vs two pretty sizeable bets. We don't really have KJ or worse here. Maybe KJs, but that rivered the nuts; KJc/KJh is probably in there, but is folding river. JTs (not just spades) I suppose is a possibility, but that's weighted a bit towards JTs and JTd. Again though, that's a hand that isn't folding river.

Flush draws all got there; the only busted draw in our range is 9Ts (not spades).

So we have ak/kq for 2 pair, KQs/QJs/QTs/JTs/9Ts for flushes, 77/88/78 (unlikely to have played this way given board texture) and straights for our nutty hands.

Our busted (read: folding river) range is 9Tc/9Th (unlikely to just call/call those), and KJh/KJc.

He should be bluffing a TON here if he's a thinking player. If we had any real money I'd be hinting at bluff shoving to fold out villain's non-nut and Qx flushes and worse, but I think it's a bit optimistic. With the Ks in our hand it obviously becomes a lot more attractive.

But yeah, we're kind of at the bottom of our range here.
 
frozensprx

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This is a difficult spot, but as played I actually might pay off the river bet, and here is why. For one, you flatted pre, which disguised the strength of your hand. If villian is a decent thinking player, AK isn't really a large part of your range to be flatting when in position, so he likely put you on some sort of broadway, suited connectors, or small pp hand. He knows that you flatted his UTG open and called several big bets, so it seems to me like this is a risky but actually a good spot to bluff if you are villain, because given the strength he has shown, he figures you either have a really strong made hand or a bluffcatching broadway type hand like KJ that would call a few bets but fold to big bet on the river. Given the way the hand played out I would call on the river.
 
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