$400 NLHE 6-max: reg 4-bets a lot. I wanna win the hand

Reg who opens button 75% and whose 4b range is 4.5% overall and probably higher in this situation. Thoughts?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $4(BB) Replayer
SB ($396)
Hero ($422)
UTG ($668)
UTG+1 ($368)
CO ($132)
BTN ($435)

Dealt to Hero T♦ A♥

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $8, fold, Hero raises to $28, BTN raises to $64, Hero calls $36

FLOP ($130) 7♦ 6♦ J♠

Hero checks, BTN bets $44, Hero calls $44

TURN ($218) 7♦ 6♦ J♠ 8♦

Hero checks, BTN bets $72, Hero calls $72

RIVER ($362) 7♦ 6♦ J♠ 8♦ 8♥

Hero bets $242 (AI)

I would've just called his $8 raise and looked at a flop. I think you played way too aggressively, when there would be plenty of times to trap him after hitting a flop. So basically you were trying to bluff a bluffer without a hand.

I think I just fold pre? Is that so wrong?

I think the 3bet is too big. 3bet to $22 then fold to 4bet. Is this wrong?

c9h13no3 said:

I think I just fold pre? Is that so wrong?

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Fold pre to a villain who is opening button 75%??? I think that is wrong.

I think he means fold to the 4bet, but yeah, I'm just going to call his first raise a majority of the time

bgomez89 said:

I think he means fold to the 4bet, but yeah, I'm just going to call his first raise a majority of the time

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Ah, right. I read that as a fold to the original raise to $8, lol.

No, I just mean fold to the open. We're OOP, we don't really hit flops, and I don't feel comfortable playing back at this guy when we miss. So.... am I crazy?

My strategy to break this guy would be to just pound him relentlessly when I've got a hand I can do that with. I'm not sure ATo qualifies.

c9h13no3 said:

No, I just mean fold to the open. We're OOP, we don't really hit flops, and I don't feel comfortable playing back at this guy when we miss. So.... am I crazy?

My strategy to break this guy would be to just pound him relentlessly when I've got a hand I can do that with. I'm not sure ATo qualifies.

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I think flatting is perfect, we dominate his range very often here. Folding is wasteful given his opening range. 3 betting is asking for trouble. We make enough money from the times we flop better aces or tens to make up for the times we miss the flop.

jordanbillie said:

I think the 3bet is too big. 3bet to $22 then fold to 4bet. Is this wrong?

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if anything its too small, but i hate turning AT into a bluff in the first place..

youregoodmate said:

I think flatting is perfect, we dominate his range very often here. Folding is wasteful given his opening range. 3 betting is asking for trouble. We make enough money from the times we flop better aces or tens to make up for the times we miss the flop.

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^ this

I'm not turning it into a bluff preflop.

What hand would you really play this way? Line makes no sense.

K, fine, clearly too nitty to fold AT. But we only have a 7% equity edge over 50% of hands. So its not like we're dominating him that hard, and we're going to miss most flops.

Your line is absolutely terrible. What you repping? I'm calling with a bare j here.

Btw, going into a hand with a plan on how ur going to play the hand, and the outcome of the hand is just terri bad.

hackmeplz said:

I'm not turning it into a bluff preflop.

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Well I dunno what his f3b stat is, but if it's anything reasonable then you kinda are. Obv he's openig anything from the button, so why not flat and play against that super wide range to help negate the OOP factor, instead of making what's really a nothing sized 3b that gives you no idea what he has and doesn't really narrow his range at all

Flatting is underrated.

too much hate towards OP, everyone treating him like a retard, of course he knows flatting ATo here vs a wide range is good, 3betting could also be very good, as could just folding preflop (yeah folding AT to a single raise here could be a good play).

I don't really like the call call shove line on this board, kind of doubt you'd have the metal to play a big overpair like that on earlier streets? But then again whether or not the line is terrible depends on how often you two try levelling each other and taking strange lines/history etc.

Preflop if your plan is to 3bet small with the plan of calling a really wide 4betting range OOP with a decently strong range then i guess that worked but it seems like a tricky task, why not 3bet larger then you can 5bet shove really wide with hands as weak as AT if you must?

Just 3b/shove pf if he's 4betting so light and opening so much in the first place? He's leaving tons of dead money out there and we have good blockers. Your 3bet/shoving range should be expanded a ton in this spot.

Flatting his 4bet is probably ok if you have a read on his postflop play but your line makes no sense whatsoever. It's not about 'winning the hand', it's about maximizing your EV. Flatting to play postflop is just wonky without a read, and shoving is going to be clearly +EV for us.

3bet/shove>>>>>flat>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3bet/flat>fold imo.

I agree with chuck but i think that would be so much better if we 3bet larger to begin with

Yeah his sizing makes it a lot tougher for us to make a profit 3bet/shoving given he can 4bet small enough to give us a shitty price on a shove.

Been a while since I remember how I adjust to that. Flat more and widen my 3bet/call vs 4bet range more I suppose. Never liked 3betting bigger in the first place but definitely think there's a balanced approach to that.

uran out of bullets in this fight...u dont even have a gd semi bluff hand. he seems to be beting pocket pairs and any ak , aq etc... it seems one of these hit. get the fk out. hed fold 22 to ur onslaught... hell he prolly 4bets suited connectors too. just wait for a dry flop and look him up with a better hand - or come over the top with something nutty if hes drawing. My guess would be set or flush draw he hit.

obv OP knows what hes doing preflop, and i have no problem with that line. but i dont like the preflop line if the plan is to 'win the hand' via flat/flat/donkjam, having said that though i bet it worked here

The Messiah said:

Your line is absolutely terrible. What you repping? I'm calling with a bare j here.

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I'm confused. Obviously I'm not trying to make him fold Jx here...

Anyway let me explain my thought process. No offense but a lotta people are giving me absolutely no credit. I'm a winning 400nl reg (all my 1knl shots fail so maybe I can't beat 1knl but I have a pretty solid history at 400/600nl) and I'm not retarded.

My 3b pre isn't a bluff but it's not really for value, it's sort of a combination of both. I think the combination of the fold equity I get plus the value of having a decent hand to be able to play postflop gives me enough value to make it better than flatting (and obviously better than folding). Then when he 4-bets I think the sick odds I get plus the equity against his hand (and the fact that I play way better than he will in 4b pots) makes it a super easy call.

Then on this runout I think he's going to double barrel a ton but won't have a hand that can call a river shove on a brick very often so I take this line. Obviously on the river I can also hit a flush which will be good some non-zero percent of the time (probably ch/f river diamonds though), and the gutter that can make me the best hand really often is pretty good. When I shove I'm just trying to make him fold Adx type hands which I think is the majority of his range assuming his 4b range includes a bunch of weak Ax hands.

It could be bad, but at least give me credit for having a brain before just telling me I'm god-awful and a spewtard and how awful my line is. Anyway results are it worked this time but I'm certainly open to it not being a good play in the long run.

Hack:
Don't take it personally. Obviously you're playing tougher games than any of us ITT. All I did was ask a question and state a fact. Your line really makes no sense with any hand IMO. Maybe 87? In taking a bluff line, trying to rep a handful of combos vs. someone you have history with is generally not going to be a good idea.

That said, I'm clearly open to non-standard lines being correct under the right circumstances. After all, that's what poker is all about. If all anyone did at 400 NL is take standard lines then you'd just be generating rake.

There are quite obviously things such as history, dynamics, specific reads that would make this a fine/profitable/even optimal line. That said, you didn't provide any sort of information like that, so everyone is sort of in the dark as to what's going on here.

Barring that, having a plan to outplay someone OOP with a hand like ATo in a 4-bet pot with 100 BB starting stacks just isn't going to work out well vs. most opponents. If you had JTs and 300 BB stacks, I'd like the plan a lot more.

Villain went from 64 preflop to 44 on the flop? Any reads on villlain when he dbl barrels-both 1/3 psb?

I prefer flat flop raise big on turn. The turn gets there with a ton of hands, you'll get a lot of folds imo...and set yourself up better for a river shove. As played river donk shove seems pretty airy and I could see villain lookin u up lighter.

Nh tho