$4 NLHE Full Ring: Thoughts on these overbet calls?

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Merge - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 30 BB (VPIP: 21.55, PFR: 1.15, 3Bet Preflop: 0.69, hands: 348)
UTG: 101.75 BB (VPIP: 19.40, PFR: 15.34, 3Bet Preflop: 10.24, Hands: 1,480)
UTG+1: 40.25 BB (VPIP: 16.95, PFR: 8.86, 3Bet Preflop: 1.72, Hands: 359)
MP: 109.75 BB (VPIP: 15.10, PFR: 8.17, 3Bet Preflop: 0.83, Hands: 1,908)
MP+1: 248.5 BB (VPIP: 14.92, PFR: 9.79, 3Bet Preflop: 3.10, Hands: 1,002)
Hero (CO): 249.5 BB
BTN: 128.25 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
SB: 111 BB (VPIP: 20.74, PFR: 6.95, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 189)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:diamond: K:club:

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond: 4:diamond: T:spade:
Hero bets 6 BB, BTN calls 6 BB

Turn: (19.5 BB, 2 players) J:club:
Hero bets 15 BB, BTN raises to 119.25 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 104.25 BB

River: (258 BB, 2 players) Q:spade:

Merge - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 187 BB (VPIP: 27.12, PFR: 20.34, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 59)
SB: 86.25 BB (VPIP: 17.57, PFR: 11.44, 3Bet Preflop: 1.50, Hands: 407)
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 91 BB (VPIP: 19.21, PFR: 7.31, 3Bet Preflop: 0.89, Hands: 305)
UTG+1: 118 BB (VPIP: 19.57, PFR: 15.50, 3Bet Preflop: 9.06, Hands: 839)
MP: 123.5 BB (VPIP: 18.53, PFR: 8.62, 3Bet Preflop: 2.08, Hands: 233)
MP+1: 72 BB (VPIP: 21.57, PFR: 8.82, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 102)
CO: 90.75 BB (VPIP: 43.88, PFR: 5.10, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 100)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 2:heart: 9:club:

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO calls 1 BB, fold, fold, Hero checks

Flop: (2.5 BB, 2 players) 2:spade: 5:spade: J:heart:
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: (2.5 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond:
Hero bets 2.5 BB, CO calls 2.5 BB

River: (7.5 BB, 2 players) A:diamond:
Hero bets 7.5 BB, CO raises to 87.25 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 79.75 BB
 
John A

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Hand 1 is close, and hand 2 is a fold. Those are my deep thoughts. :)
 
Figaroo2

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Hand 1 he looks a bit of a maniac so with top pair and the oesd i'm probably reluctantly calling. I might fold early on against this guy until his maniac status is better defined as 11 hands isnt really enough.
Hand two I agree is a fold too much chance of a bigger two pair here to spew off 87 bb,
 
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Hand 1 I was thinking maybe it was a flush draw jamming a scare card? Just didn't make much sense. I agree with hand 2 being a fold, I hate free hands...
 
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tomnovember

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#1: I don't think any hands weaker than overpair will move allin here. The villain may have AA, 2 pair, set or even straight. KK can hardly beat anything other than bluffs.

#2: You are such a fish and do call any bet regardless of the bet size. I do not see much river shoving bluff at this level. It is obvious that the villain has 43o and can get great value from you...
 
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#1: I don't think any hands weaker than overpair will move allin here. The villain may have AA, 2 pair, set or even straight. KK can hardly beat anything other than bluffs.

#2: You are such a fish and do call any bet regardless of the bet size. I do not see much river shoving bluff at this level. It is obvious that the villain has 43o and can get great value from you...

#1. You don't think villain is ever bluffing here or atleast semi bluffing? It could easily be a 10d9d, KQ, or whatever. It is a 50/40 player we are talking about here not a daily grinder. Also, even if I am beat I am still open ended and can draw out on 2 pair too.

#2. Does your opinion change at all if you know villain has an AF of 6 and was a semi maniac?(Probably should of included that in OP)

Do you fold to every shove you face unless you have the nuts?
 
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Figaroo2

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I dont think it appropriate for people to respond by calling you a fish. We dont post hands to get abused even if it is mild. I actually find Toms reply offensive.
 
Himanshu

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hand 1 i don't think you did anything wrong there was no ace a situation we hope when we have kings it was a really interesting flop with flush and straight possibilities so BTN could be going all in to bluff you out of the pot it was a thin call but i think i would have done the same hand 2 was a fold
 
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I dont think it appropriate for people to respond by calling you a fish. We dont post hands to get abused even if it is mild. I actually find Toms reply offensive.

Agree'd I never experience those type of replys on other poker sites.
 
BenjiHustle

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Let's keep from berating those who are attempting to learn, eh? That is, after all, the entire point of us being here. If you want to be a douche, go to poker.org

That said, I think you have to let hand 1 go. I know it is tempting to call, but your jammer, despite appearing to be a maniac after a very small sample size, has a LOT of equity going forward in his range. Pair/FD combos, pair/SD combos, 2 pairs, sets, made straights with FD, etc. It's going to be really difficult to get a single pair to be good on this hand.

The second hand looks like villain holds a better 2pair or a set and I have to let this one go too. If we look at villain's stats, we see that he's unlikely to get aggressive and much more prefers to hit the call button. His PFR stat is equal to most people's 3bet stat, so big bets out of left field just look as though his slowplay left him getting less value for his hand than he wanted, so he jammed hoping to pick up more than he could otherwise.
 
IPlay

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Let's keep from berating those who are attempting to learn, eh? That is, after all, the entire point of us being here. If you want to be a douche, go to poker.org

That said, I think you have to let hand 1 go. I know it is tempting to call, but your jammer, despite appearing to be a maniac after a very small sample size, has a LOT of equity going forward in his range. Pair/FD combos, pair/SD combos, 2 pairs, sets, made straights with FD, etc. It's going to be really difficult to get a single pair to be good on this hand.

The second hand looks like villain holds a better 2pair or a set and I have to let this one go too. If we look at villain's stats, we see that he's unlikely to get aggressive and much more prefers to hit the call button. His PFR stat is equal to most people's 3bet stat, so big bets out of left field just look as though his slowplay left him getting less value for his hand than he wanted, so he jammed hoping to pick up more than he could otherwise.

In hand 2 he was actually quite aggro post flop with an AF of 6 if you didn't see, still a marginal call.

Hand 1 I also hold plenty of equity though? Any A, 9, K or board pairing(gives me better 2 pair) is winning? Also add in that this could be a bluff lets say 10% of the time? Idk, this spot is marginal too and thats why I posted these hands. These spots are probably better off being folded but I can't fold to every maniac shove can I?

fwiw, I don't make calls like this often, these are 2 hands out of a 30k sample.
 
BenjiHustle

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In hand 2 he was actually quite aggro post flop with an AF of 6 if you didn't see, still a marginal call.
It doesn't show AF in these stats. That does help me think that it may be okay, but I personally still fold thinking they have AJ, A9, or a set.

Hand 1 I also hold plenty of equity though? Any A, 9, K or board pairing(gives me better 2 pair) is winning? Also add in that this could be a bluff lets say 10% of the time? Idk, this spot is marginal too and thats why I posted these hands. These spots are probably better off being folded but I can't fold to every maniac shove can I?
I understand that, but I think you're beaten OTT almost all of the time. I see no reason for villain to overbet the turn here without having made a hand that is 2-pair or better. Even 2 pair should be scared here most of the time. You two also share a lot of equity in that a lot of your cards help his range so much, that you can't accurately suggest that you have any equity, really. All you can really hope for is an offsuit ace if you're behind.
 
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It doesn't show AF in these stats. That does help me think that it may be okay, but I personally still fold thinking they have AJ, A9, or a set.


I understand that, but I think you're beaten OTT almost all of the time. I see no reason for villain to overbet the turn here without having made a hand that is 2-pair or better. Even 2 pair should be scared here most of the time. You two also share a lot of equity in that a lot of your cards help his range so much, that you can't accurately suggest that you have any equity, really. All you can really hope for is an offsuit ace if you're behind.

Quality post, thanks.
 
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#1. You don't think villain is ever bluffing here or atleast semi bluffing? It could easily be a 10d9d, KQ, or whatever. It is a 50/40 player we are talking about here not a daily grinder. Also, even if I am beat I am still open ended and can draw out on 2 pair too.

#2. Does your opinion change at all if you know villain has an AF of 6 and was a semi maniac?(Probably should of included that in OP)

Do you fold to every shove you face unless you have the nuts?

#1: It is idiot to semibluff the turn as only one card is left to make the draws. If he do have KQ or sth., why to shove here? As when facing AK he is drawing dead and AA/KK can hardly fold by fish, while other hands are just behind. So you are already beaten here and the pot odds will not allow you to call.

#2: It is nothing regarding AF. This is river, so hand is already made or missed. If you always think your opponents are maniacally bluffing, you are actually the one who is manic.
 
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I dont think it appropriate for people to respond by calling you a fish. We dont post hands to get abused even if it is mild. I actually find Toms reply offensive.

If it is a fishy play, the calling is just appropriate. We are talking about the poker strategies but not people themselves. So just be direct and frank.
 
BenjiHustle

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But tom, you're probably a fish and you didn't say it was a fishy play, you said "You are such a fish and do call any bet". That's pure douchery.

Most of everybody here would probably roll you repeatedly given the opportunity. There's nothing about calling someone a fish that is direct and frank. It's actually quite the opposite. It's an assumption based on a 2 hand sample that does zero good for anyone. It's off-topic and has nothing to do with the hand itself. We post here to get advice, not get insulted. Also, your statement about AF being a non-factor because a hand is either made or not at this point is absolutely ignorant. AF takes into account aggressive action/passive action and has nothing to do with hole cards.
 
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But tom, you're probably a fish and you didn't say it was a fishy play, you said "You are such a fish and do call any bet". That's pure douchery.

Most of everybody here would probably roll you repeatedly given the opportunity. There's nothing about calling someone a fish that is direct and frank. It's actually quite the opposite. It's an assumption based on a 2 hand sample that does zero good for anyone. It's off-topic and has nothing to do with the hand itself. We post here to get advice, not get insulted. Also, your statement about AF being a non-factor because a hand is either made or not at this point is absolutely ignorant. AF takes into account aggressive action/passive action and has nothing to do with hole cards.

If you think such comments are insulting, are you just insulting me now?

You post to get advice, so I tell you that such play from my opinion is quite fishy, anything wrong here? Or actually you can just take flurry comments as advice?

Besides, even the most aggressive player seldom bluff on such a dry board. And do you actually think such a player who limp at CO, check the flop, call the turn an aggressive player? Are you kidding me?
 
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