$4 NLHE Full Ring: QQ in BB. 3B into PFR+2 calls?

AugustWest

AugustWest

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Felt like a good time to iso, but mebbe not..........

Villain was 29/2 over 50 hands.

Merge $4.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players

UTG+1: $5.72
MP1: $5.57
MP2: $3.50
CO: $7.43
BTN: $14.09
SB: $4.80
Hero (BB): $3.94
UTG: $2.90

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero is BB with Q
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Q
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2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.12, MP2 calls $0.12, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.12, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.52, MP1 calls $0.40, MP2 calls $0.40, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.70) 6
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9
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4
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(3 players)
Hero bets $0.85, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to $2.98, Hero folds

Final Pot: $3.40
MP2 wins $2.13
(Rake: $0.18)
 
dj11

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What made you not 4 bet him?
 
Aleksei

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What made you not 4 bet him?
The fact that he was a 29/2 I presume.

if I had KK I'd call because he has enough QQ that I have odds to peel, but with QQ? Yeah, better spots to GII imo.
 
AugustWest

AugustWest

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When a passive goes bonkers, its usually nuts imho.....
Think I'm missing a bit of terminology here. 4bet. I raised preflop and got callers. How do I 4bet?
 
Aleksei

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I think he either misread the hand or meant flop 3bet.
 
Deco

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Ship it AINEC.
Flush draws, straight draws, JJ, TT, A9. Folding here in fear of a set from a fishes wide merged range is really bad imo.
 
S

ScottishMatt

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Never folding here. The stats you gave us only show he is passive pre, 29/2 doesn't mean shit postflop. There are plenty of hands he can have here that we smash. We beat TP/FDs/JJ/TT and are only beaten by sets and possibly 64s, easy ship.

The only way you could advocate a fold here is if you didn't read the hand correctly and think that MP2 was the opener.
 
AugustWest

AugustWest

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So there is no way a passive preflop player has KK/AA?
 
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ScottishMatt

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Yeah he can but -

1) AA/KK is just as likely as TT/JJ (50/50)
2) He has more TP combos than sets (In your favour)
3) FDs are more likely than two pair here (Also in your favour)
4) Yeah sure he is passive, but he is also an idiot. If this was a 20/10 I would be worried. The fact is that this guys stupidity outweighs his passivity. This adds to our equity here because he can show up with plenty of goofball shit like 88/77 (Another one in your favour)

Edit: point one is also worst case scenario, he most likely 3-bets AA/KK or 4-bet shoves over your squeeze so we can discount these hands most of the time. Which actually makes all 4 of my points in your favour. Plenty of incentive to call IMO.
 
dj11

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What is it about 29/2 that makes YOU turn passive? and then fold.

29 just says villain likes to see a lot of flops and is extreme common at micro levels, the 2 adds to the noob notion that villain hasn't learned to bet. 50 hands is not enough to make a bad decision on, usually. The overbet adds credence to your strength and that villain hit tp.

Sure, all of the nightmare scenarios are in play, but the logic is that you are ahead.

I'm calling all day. This after busting out of a tourney yesterday with QQ.....:(

I'm not totally sure the fold is bad BTW. Something that doesn't show up in a HH made you do it, and we are not privy to what that something is. From a logical math perspective, it looks like a bad move to fold. The ability to muck huge hands is an important one to develop, no doubt about that, but this isn't one of those situation where the evidence is screaming that you need to fold QQ, at most the evidence is just like a nagging mate suggesting there might be reason to get out.
 
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AugustWest

AugustWest

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Well, I guess when I see a player limp/fold over a bunch of orbits suddenly go gonzo, I tend to put the brakes on. I have two outs for most of my stack? I'll pass...
Thanks for the tips guys!! :thumbup:
 
B

buster999

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Call, so many hands in their range that your ahead of. . MP2 flatted pre after MP1 called so I think its safe to cross AA and KK out of his range.
 
Deco

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Not only are we folding an overpair on a safe drawy flop vs a fish in a 3bet pot but we're doing it with an SPR of ~1.7.

I feel I need to emphasize how big of a mistake this is. A lot of the time I give advise I'm nit picking, or passing on my personal opinion when a lot of choices are equally valid. This however is a huge huge mistake and you should really take a hard look in to how your playing your low SPR pots and the ranges you assign villains within them.
 
AugustWest

AugustWest

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SPR is not a concept I'm familiar with.
Time to whip up my goggle-fu!!
 
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coelho2013

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When a liability is crazy, your nuts ..... imho generally
I think I'm losing a bit of terminology here. 4bet. I raised pre-flop and received calls. As I 4bet? Proves that we do not know much yet
 
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