$4 NLHE Full Ring: overplayed QQ

This was a .02NL game, it does not let me choose that stake. I normally play this hand pretty cautiously on a flop like this, but villain seemed pretty weak here. He was pretty lose of a player, seen him call down with weaker pairs. He usually led out with TP hands. His stats for the session were 45/11/34 (vp/pf/fold%) out of 66 hands.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($0.93)
Button ($2.03)
SB ($1.98)
BB ($1.50)
UTG ($3.44)
UTG+1 ($4.97)
MP1 ($0.90)
MP2 ($5.42)
Hero (MP3) ($2.16)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with ,
UTG calls $0.02, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.10, 4 folds, UTG calls $0.08, UTG+1 calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.33) , , (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.20, UTG calls $0.20, 1 fold

Turn: ($0.73) (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.86 (All-In), UTG calls $1.86

River: ($4.45) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.45 | Rake: $0.22


Now what i hate most about this hand was the shove i made on the turn. No idea why i did that i guess i was sticking to my read and wanted to make him pay for a draw i don't know. I could of still bet about 2/3 to pot and evaluated the river. i could have slowed down when the K hit the flop and checked behind. or checked behind on the turn. How would you guys play QQ with a board like this?

Shove on turn is ugly, I would bet 2/3 pot on turn, and check behind on the river. How I would play it, I'm sure you'll get a more precise answer soon.

not sure if this is a normal WA/WB spot since villain is kinda loose and would call with worse, so I don't hate betting the flop. On the turn though I don't think I'd shove, I'd probably bet then check back the river. I would sometimes check back the turn if there weren't a ton of bad river cards that could hit.

I do the same thing -- way too often. It's a huge leak in my game that I regularly think Mr Loosey Goosey couldn't have a hand that beats me.

I've learned, painfully, that I tend to be thinking something along the lines of "WTH, I'm shoving." There is usually a hint of frustrated growl behind it. When I have any thought like that, I force myself to fold to a raise -- or at least slow down dramatically. Or I TRY to force myself. If I fail to control me, 90% of the time, I'm beat.

One of the problems with a .02 game is that the stakes in each hand feel too small. That's a problem for a number of players at these micro stakes. They add up tho.

cjatud2012 said:

not sure if this is a normal WA/WB spot since villain is kinda loose and would call with worse, so I don't hate betting the flop. On the turn though I don't think I'd shove, I'd probably bet then check back the river. I would sometimes check back the turn if there weren't a ton of bad river cards that could hit.

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yea i beat myself up over the shove, i couldn't think why i would do such a thing. Its possible i was little tilty from the days earlier sessions. i get frustrated at those stakes cause i feel like i never get a chance to double up and im either leaving with pocket change or leaving just a little under so its possible i tried a little hard to double up with a losing hand. (pulled the old no no trying to make back my loses on the day)

I do the same thing -- way too often. It's a huge leak in my game that I regularly think Mr Loosey Goosey couldn't have a hand that beats me.

I've learned, painfully, that I tend to be thinking something along the lines of "WTH, I'm shoving." There is usually a hint of frustrated growl behind it. When I have any thought like that, I force myself to fold to a raise -- or at least slow down dramatically. Or I TRY to force myself. If I fail to control me, 90% of the time, I'm beat.

One of the problems with a .02 game is that the stakes in each hand feel too small. That's a problem for a number of players at these micro stakes. They add up tho.

Click to expand...

Yea i hear this...i usually stay pretty disciplined for most of the session and then i start getting frustrated with how little im winning per hand and i lose my focus. Going to try and just focus on playing solid poker and not worry about how much im winning per hand. Micro stakes are such a slow grind, usually why i only play the 9 man sngs, but i needed to step away from those for a little.


AHHHH i apologize for the double post bumped the stupid back button on my mouse and had no idea it already posted the first post before i tried to edit.

This is a pretty standard WA/WB spot imo.

Betting the flop is ok here, but I'd prefer checking back the turn and calling a river bet, which loose players will often make if they've missed their flush draw. Other option is checking behind on the flop, then re-evaluating on the turn.

I think the flop bet is fine but after called I would probably slow down. I mean the turn 4 may have actually helped you to save some money. I would check back and see what the villain does on the river. He might check again for you to check behind or he might bet. Either way you would get out alot cheaper here. Yeah the board is drawey but shoving the turn will either lose your stack for ya or win you a smaller pot.

PNJs_dad said:

I think the flop bet is fine but after called I would probably slow down. I mean the turn 4 may have actually helped you to save some money. I would check back and see what the villain does on the river. He might check again for you to check behind or he might bet. Either way you would get out alot cheaper here. Yeah the board is drawey but shoving the turn will either lose your stack for ya or win you a smaller pot.

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yea it caused me to lose my whole stack when he called me with K2 of clubs. i just played like a total retard. i should of stopped playing for a couple hours.

JMcCabe said:

This is a pretty standard WA/WB spot imo.

Betting the flop is ok here, but I'd prefer checking back the turn and calling a river bet, which loose players will often make if they've missed their flush draw. Other option is checking behind on the flop, then re-evaluating on the turn.

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I would generally agree, but how worried are we about the board texture here? Flop is two-toned, any broadway card could leave us feeling uncomfortable with our hand, if we checked back the flop and giving the free card wouldn't that be kind of bad? I mean I could be totally wrong here, I'm just spitballing.

JMcCabe2012 said:

This is a pretty standard WA/WB spot imo.

Betting the flop is ok here, but I'd prefer checking back the turn and calling a river bet, which loose players will often make if they've missed their flush draw. Other option is checking behind on the flop, then re-evaluating on the turn..

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cjatud2012 said:

I would generally agree, but how worried are we about the board texture here? Flop is two-toned, any broadway card could leave us feeling uncomfortable with our hand, if we checked back the flop and giving the free card wouldn't that be kind of bad? I mean I could be totally wrong here, I'm just spitballing.

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The flop is not draw free so isn't a WA/WB. If he has, for instance, AJc we are neither way ahead nor way behind.

Just read through this thread again: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/ I still think there's some merit to betting, but there's a case for checking too.

First off, you're up against two players who have limp-called from UTG and UTG+1. Personally, I'm a big fan of the delayed continuation bet in a spot like this.

Your QQ is rarely good here, but it does have showdown value, especially against a loose passive player like this. Check behind and hope for a blank on the turn.

If it's checked to you again, bet the turn. You're now in a position where the draws will still call, but have much worse pot odds.

Kings aren't folding anyways, but they may fold if a draw comes in on the river, and you now double barrel into them.

Finally, look at the hand this way. You have QsTc and the flop comes out KsQc4c. How much do you like your hand now? This is basically the exact same situation, except you're not holding QQ. We often get married to our big pocket pairs (as I'm sure you already know) and feel entitled to win the pot, simply because of our good starting hand against a fish.

This is the main reason you stacked off here, right?

Raise more pre. check behind on the flop. this guy has tons of worse kings in his range. as played I would bet smallish on the turn and then call a small river bet maybe