$4 NLHE Full Ring: Over pair w/ draw heavy board + 3 bet pot donk bet

teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Total posts
382
Chips
0
The past week I have just been playing poorly. I lost all the money I've made and then some. So I'm trying to reevaluate my play to see how much I suck. I won both of these hands, but I think I played terribly... I just need outside opinion to see where and what I did wrong.


They are both against the same player who is a "reg" (I've seen him around). He is pretty suspicious and aggressive, has 3 bet with AQo before, doesn't like to fold a hand after he's decided to play it (mostly preflop... limp/calls a bit)


Merge - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 41.25 BB (VPIP: 24.00, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
CO: 134.5 BB (VPIP: 34.55, PFR: 3.64, 3Bet Preflop: 2.13, Hands: 111)
BTN: 101 BB (VPIP: 18.29, PFR: 12.20, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 83)
SB: 96 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 15.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
BB: 94.5 BB (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)
UTG: 105 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 7)
Hero (UTG+1): 109.25 BB
MP: 103.5 BB (VPIP: 21.62, PFR: 12.84, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 152)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has :kd4: :kc4:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) :4d4: :8s4: :7d4:
Hero bets 5.5 BB, MP calls 5.5 BB

Turn: (18.5 BB, 2 players) :3d4:
Hero bets 10 BB, fold

I raise 3 BB cuz the table was folding to my 4BB raises... I dunno, it's debatable, sure.

But I felt like such an idiot betting out on the turn. I dunno, what should I be thinking?

I think a good player would have raised my flop bet, but at these stakes it's better to just bet because people passively play draws... this guy has a FCB of 33, so we're getting called by a lot of nothing hands.

We do have a flush draw on the turn, so is it ok to bet? should I look to check and call? He has an AF of 58 after 170 hands

Here's another hand


Merge - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 68.25 BB (VPIP: 27.50, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 41)
BTN: 131.5 BB (VPIP: 31.67, PFR: 3.33, 3Bet Preflop: 1.85, Hands: 121)
SB: 108.75 BB (VPIP: 18.56, PFR: 12.37, 3Bet Preflop: 3.33, Hands: 98)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 8.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
UTG: 81 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 42)
UTG+1: 130.75 BB (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 22)
MP: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
Hero (MP+1): 119.25 BB
MP+2: 100 BB (VPIP: 25.15, PFR: 14.11, 3Bet Preflop: 3.92, Hands: 167)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has :5d4: :5h4:

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, MP+2 raises to 10.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 7.5 BB

Flop: (22.5 BB, 2 players) :2h4: :th4: :3c4:
Hero checks, MP+2 bets 15 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

Turn: (52.5 BB, 2 players) :4c4:
Hero bets 25 BB, MP+2 calls 25 BB

River: (102.5 BB, 2 players) :6c4:
Hero bets 68.75 BB and is all-in, MP+2 calls 49.5 BB and is all-in


Sorry for the long post, I'm just freaking out- I feel like I haven't improved at all in the past 2 months, and I'm not sure if I'm not practicing the right way or what...

If I'm just a donk let me know, too. The harsher the feedback, the better :D
 
T

tomnovember

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Total posts
598
Chips
0
#1: I think your turn bet is just fine, bet check call maybe better. Your hand is easy to be bluffed out when the turn card come, so a bet here can let you know whether you are ahead or behind. That's fine.

#2: Calling with 55 OOP is reluctant, as there are too few flop you can continue with. But your flop and river play is just fine.
 
teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Total posts
382
Chips
0
Yea, that's what I was thinking. Check call turn on #1 could make some money off of his bluffs... it certainly to be considered. I'm not sure how he would play on various river cards though.

and #2... This guy was on my left, so I would have to play him OOP... but I see what you're saying, with such a weak hand it's better to call a 3 bet in position. It would have made my play here a lot safer.

But this is the type of opponent you'd like to set mine against. I guess, if I'm thinking that and playing OOP, I should just give up when I don't flop a set... I'll work on trying to incorporate position into my decision making more.
 
T

tomnovember

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Total posts
598
Chips
0
Yea, that's what I was thinking. Check call turn on #1 could make some money off of his bluffs... it certainly to be considered. I'm not sure how he would play on various river cards though.

and #2... This guy was on my left, so I would have to play him OOP... but I see what you're saying, with such a weak hand it's better to call a 3 bet in position. It would have made my play here a lot safer.

But this is the type of opponent you'd like to set mine against. I guess, if I'm thinking that and playing OOP, I should just give up when I don't flop a set... I'll work on trying to incorporate position into my decision making more.

#2: As the 3bet size is over 10BB, actually you do not have enough implied odds if you are just set mining. And as you are OOP, you can hardly control the pot size and will get much less value from the villain.
 
Jollocks

Jollocks

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Total posts
103
Chips
0
Hi,

First of all I would suggest mining sets with small pocket pairs at the micros. Your pfr was just fine. After the 3bet from villain I would fold. You want to be seeing flops as cheaply as possible. IMO you shot yourself in the foot as soon as you called the 3bet.

Post flop I would have made a Cbet even if you miss, maybe 3/4 pot. If he calls or reraises I would fold. When going into flop you didn't have the initiative, nor did you postflop.

Overall, I would've folded straight after the 3bet. You got lucky in this hand by flopping hard. As it states in the theory of poker by David sklansky, if you make a mistake and you win you still lose money overall. However, if you make a correct play and lose you gain. It's called mathematical expectation.
 
suby_rafael

suby_rafael

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Total posts
1,039
Chips
0
I thought you played both the hands well, sure you took a different approach but that's all there is to it. I did not see anything overly wrong to criticize or point out. So well played and i don't think you played these hands like a donk.
A donk cannot make such plays. :icon_joke
 
teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Total posts
382
Chips
0
OK, thanks for the feedback guiz!

Yea I've actually come to understand how pocket pairs work a lot better since this, I feel like your feedback has helped a lot, all!

:marchmell
 
akaRobbo

akaRobbo

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Total posts
656
Chips
0
1. Make turn bet 12-13 BB. Everything else is fine.

2. Im folding pre.

Just what I would do. There's nothing worrying about your play in these hands, don't be too hard on yourself. Always be confident at the tables. GL
 
Top