$4 NLHE Full Ring: NL 4 QQ call on river?

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SquareWheels

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Revolution Gaming Network - $0.04 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 46 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, hands: 1)
BB: 61.25 BB (VPIP: 31.32, PFR: 12.71, 3Bet Preflop: 2.38, Hands: 184)
Hero (UTG): 48.25 BB
CO: 37.25 BB (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 11.84, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 152)
BTN: 47.5 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 3.57, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 29)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:club: Q:heart:

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (12 BB, 4 players) A:spade: 7:diamond: J:club:
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Turn: (18 BB, 2 players) J:spade:
Hero bets 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB

River: (24 BB, 2 players) 6:club:
Hero checks, BTN bets 12 BB, fold

[spoil]BTN wins 22.5 BB
[/spoil]
 
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ScottishMatt

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Good fold on the river. I would give more consideration as to why you are betting flop and turn. You will struggle to get value on such a dry board with an underpair and with 3 opponents in the hand there is a good chance you are beat.

I think your best move is to try and check it down to the river. You could possibly bet on a later street if the board run out was different. Here however your hand is good for showdown value and little else.
 
LD1977

LD1977

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Agree. Someone most likely has an Ace and unless he is a nit and paranoid about kickers, forget it. Also, your fishy microscopic bets achieve exactly zilch (no fold equity, no value).

I like to raise for 4bb UTG/EP/MP, 3bb in late position. Helps to clear out people a little.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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Going to the flop 4-way. Your queens were probably out-flopped. Flop and turn bet of 3BB was a waste of money (IMO). A proper c-bet on the flop would have been OK.

However, if your flop c-bet is called (a proper flop bet, not 3BB), shut it down after that. C/F.

Raise 4-5x preflop.

That is my $0.02, take it or leave it.
 
stately7

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I'm generally ok with the 3x pre-flop raise but I don't think i'd be c-betting in this spot on the flop, as tragic as that is.

I do like the idea of some 4x or 5x raises in early position, may incorporate that as I tend to keep it 3x for consistency/deception whenever I am first to open in any position. But do 4x/5x EP/MP raisers not worry about discouraging action? I guess if you're consistently balanced there (big hands and speculative), it won't be a problem.
 
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AvaloNNN

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What kind of bet is that ? I mean honestly, this is so exploitable and fishy and
you definitely need to work on your bet sizing .

3x raise preflop is ok.
With 2 players already checked to me on the flop, i don't mind c-betting, but put in a real c-bet, not this fishy joke'-bet of yours.
If you get called (as you did) proceed with caution and probably c/f on the turn.
Checking the flop is an optimal play as well since you're in a 4-way pot.

On the turn you continue your joking and spewing and bet 3BB into 18BB, another fishy joke-bet. I mean, I don't get what are you trying to accomplish with this, you have no fold equity with this bet, and you're definitely not good enough to value bet.

Read this:
http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/general/bet-sizing/
 
LD1977

LD1977

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I'm generally ok with the 3x pre-flop raise but I don't think i'd be c-betting in this spot on the flop, as tragic as that is.

I do like the idea of some 4x or 5x raises in early position, may incorporate that as I tend to keep it 3x for consistency/deception whenever I am first to open in any position. But do 4x/5x EP/MP raisers not worry about discouraging action? I guess if you're consistently balanced there (big hands and speculative), it won't be a problem.

1. Always open the same amount, so no reads. UTG range is supposed to be strong anyway.

2. 3bb is not much, so when you get 1st caller then every other one gets very nice odds to see the flop. Chain reaction leads to nasty multiway pots and you most likely have a TPTK/overpair hand if you know about proper UTG ranges and you are out of position (ideal way to get stacked with random crap). IF you flop a set, well, that is nice and all, but that is not happening that often.

Facing 4 people on the flop with AA = bad

P.S. OP - Why are you playing 4NL 6max? Start with 2NL and when you learn the basics move up. Also FR is probably a bit easier but that is debatable.
 
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SquareWheels

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Thanks everyone for the help on this! def a lot of good information!

So a proper C-bet is somewhere around 1/3 or 1/2 pot?

Also, this was a 9 max table and NL4 is lowest stakes on this site.. Im in US and hard to find a lot of good sites. Im not doing to bad in the long run as Im up $2.50 in a day and a half. Im still pretty new!

Thanks again to all who chimed in on this!
 
LD1977

LD1977

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Yeah I can see how it can be a problem.

If you can't get enough players to fill up a table, then either join a waiting list for a filled up table and wait for a spot or just learn 6max instead of FR and play those.

As for proper cbet size, go read the link provided by AvaloNNN.
 
stately7

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I like to c-bet between just under half up to 3/4 of the pot, but it is situation dependent. Sometimes, rarely, i'll c-bet the pot.
 
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NewbieOfPoker

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Maybe best was fold on flop?
 
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SquareWheels

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Yeah I can see how it can be a problem.

If you can't get enough players to fill up a table, then either join a waiting list for a filled up table and wait for a spot or just learn 6max instead of FR and play those.

As for proper cbet size, go read the link provided by AvaloNNN.

i went to the link after posting. very good material there. I've read some articles about post flop betting but now I have a lot better understanding! It seems like I have been more focused on pre-flop play, but this has helped me a lot! thanks again
 
Aleksei

Aleksei

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check/fold flop. 4 people in, someone has an Ace, and you have a grand total of 2 outs.
 
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