$4 NLHE Full Ring: How To Play JJ?

honeycrush

honeycrush

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 32/8/1.45

This player is pretty loose/passive. I'd seen him call down with bottom pair and even with high card A. What's the best way to play premium hands against someone like this?

PartyGaming - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $5.30
BB: $4.38
UTG: $1.77
UTG+1: $11.39 (32/8/1.45)
MP: $8.52
MP+1: $10.83
LP: $3.10
Hero (CO): $6.32
BTN: $6.30

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has J J

fold, UTG+1 calls $0.04, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.08, fold, fold, fold, UTG+1 calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.22, 2 players) J 2 T
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.24, UTG+1 calls $0.24

Turn: ($0.70, 2 players) A
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2.04, UTG+1 raises to $4.08, Hero raises to $6.00 and is all-in, UTG+1 calls $1.92

River: ($12.70, 2 players) 4
 
B

baudib1

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try to avoid 3x pot bets. as played get it in and be happy about it.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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Your bet sizing is absolutely atrocious. Both the min raise preflop and the 3x pot on the turn.

As played, i guess a loose passive player has the nuts most of the time when he belugas the turn, but since the nuts in his mind could as easily be TT or 22 as KQ and since anyway we can always hit the boat if we're beat, playing for stacks is fine.
 
Daniel72

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"This player is pretty loose/passive. I'd seen him call down with bottom pair and even with high card A. What's the best way to play premium hands against someone like this?"

Value bet him to death :)
In the micros your preflop raises should be higher, maybe 4x or 5x in my opinion...
 
R

RamdeeBen

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Your bet sizing is just weird.

Make it 16c pre, he will call looking at his stats so get more value.

The pot bet on the flop isn't needed..you can make it smaller, like 16-18c..

As for the turn, wtf? Why on earth are your betting $2.00 in to a 70c pot? .. He raises, but in general...there is no need to bet this much. If he IS calling a flop bet with a Q,K straight draw, it just got there, so you basically just value towned yourself. As played now though, you have to obviously call it off and be happy getting it in if he is happy calling off/getting stacks in with top pairs etc on any boards.

In future though, don't put such a huge bet in on that turn, you will never ever get called by anything unless it beats you....not sure wtf he was calling unless he truly is that bad he has to have you here more times than not..
 
honeycrush

honeycrush

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Thanks guys. I guessed it was bad play - I still haven't learned about bet sizing as have been concentrating on starting hands, VPIP and PFR - but I needed to know exactly where I went wrong.

So:

Bet more pre (16c/20c)
Bet smaller on the turn
Bet smaller on the river
Fold if they re-raise

Have I got this right?

PS He did have QK! The one time I confronted him and he had it!
 
BelgoSuisse

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I still haven't learned about bet sizing

bet sizes should nearly always be related to the size of the pot. About pot sized preflop, between half pot and full pot size on postflop streets.

Consider the simple case where you're heads up post flop.

If you bet half pot and 1 villain calls, the pot gets twice bigger from one street to the next.

If you bet full pot and 1 villain calls, the pot gets 3 times bigger from one street to the next.

Over three streets, flop, turn and river, you can therefore multiply the preflop pot between 8 and 27 times by betting between 1/2 and 1 pot on each street. That's a wide enough range in most practical cases.
 
BelgoSuisse

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btw, that's the reason why NL poker is mostly played about 100 big blinds deep. A pot sized raise preflop and a call make the pot about 8bb. 3 pot sized bets and calls till river bring the pot to something close to 200bb, i.e. 2 stacks of 100bb.
 
honeycrush

honeycrush

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bet sizes should nearly always be related to the size of the pot. About pot sized preflop, between half pot and full pot size on postflop streets.

Consider the simple case where you're heads up post flop.

If you bet half pot and 1 villain calls, the pot gets twice bigger from one street to the next.

If you bet full pot and 1 villain calls, the pot gets 3 times bigger from one street to the next.

Over three streets, flop, turn and river, you can therefore multiply the preflop pot between 8 and 27 times by betting between 1/2 and 1 pot on each street. That's a wide enough range in most practical cases.

Thanks so much. That makes a lot of sense. I will try it out tonight!

btw, that's the reason why NL poker is mostly played about 100 big blinds deep. A pot sized raise preflop and a call make the pot about 8bb. 3 pot sized bets and calls till river bring the pot to something close to 200bb, i.e. 2 stacks of 100bb.

Great.
 
BelgoSuisse

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Thanks so much. That makes a lot of sense. I will try it out tonight!.

Obviously, once you think about bet sizes, you need to consider how big you want the pot to get on the river. That depends on the relative strength you expect your hand to have by then.

Also, when you're in position and have the initiative in the hand, you can always decide to check behind on one street, so you actually control the pot size a lot more than when you're out of position and any check can be responded to by a bet from villain on that street.
 
Arjonius

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Pre-flop, bet as much as you think he'll call. You're way ahead of his likely range, so you want to build the pot.

On the flop, I don't have a big issue with potting it. The less you bet, the harder it will be to get the effective stacks in by the end, so the main concern is not to bet so big that you lose your customer.

While it worked out, I don't see any obvious logic behind almost 3x potting the turn.
 
Ducky7

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Against players who call down super light, value bet big and get it in asap
 
BelgoSuisse

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While it worked out, I don't see any obvious logic behind almost 3x potting the turn.

Don't know how you can say "it worked out" here. You could say it worked if villain called the 3x pot bet with an inferior hand. Here villain has the absolute nuts on turn so of course he isn't gonna fold.
 
JDAWG5

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Bet sizing is very weird.

Whats up with the min-raise pre?

And why did you bet 3x the pot on the turn?
 
JCgrind

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bet sizing is awful.

try and raise x3BB +1 per limp at least pre. vs a station like this you can probably get away with more. bet 75%-pot OTF to get value and devalue draws.
When he calls flop think about what he can be calling with, again 2/3 for the turn is fine.

As played, you bet x3 the pot on the turn.... what do you think hes shoving on you with? a very obvious straight just came in. this is probs the kind of guy that would do the same thing with 2p and such, but when you overbet like this you really have to expect a shove to be the nuts
 
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