$4 NLHE Full Ring: Having trouble putting this villain on a hand

belerophon

belerophon

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Total posts
346
Chips
0
$4 NL HE Full Ring: Having trouble putting this villain on a hand

I thought I had this person on a flush draw but when they folded I wondered why they didn't call. I can't decide if they had a small pair or two overs maybe? or just nothing at all and trying to steal with c bets?

Either way they committed half their chips to the pot and I was sure they would call with the rest.

poker stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 718617
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $1.60
UTG+1: $2.41
UTG+2: $1.37
MP1: $2.00
Hero (MP2): $4.99
CO: $5.17
BTN: $5.99
SB: $2.31
BB: $2.00

UTG posts a big blind ($0.02)

Pre Flop: ($0.05) Hero is MP2 with Q Q
UTG checks, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.06, 5 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.17) T 7 T (2 players)
UTG+2 bets $0.12, Hero raises to $0.38, UTG+2 calls $0.26

Turn: ($0.93) J (2 players)
UTG+2 bets $0.20, Hero raises to $1.38, UTG+2 folds
 
Pascal-lf

Pascal-lf

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Total posts
3,161
Awards
1
Chips
1
People are happy to chase one flush card for an extra 26c, but when you then charge them $1.18 on top of that initial 26c they don't like paying all the time :)
 
belerophon

belerophon

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Total posts
346
Chips
0
They committed 64c to the flop and turn and only had 73c left to fish for another heart and a 1.31$ pot. Certainly not right odds for them but for a fish I would have thought it was a snap call.

Not suggesting they are even a fish though I did not have enough hands to know for sure either way.
 
brank

brank

Back in!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Total posts
1,354
Chips
0
eh, he could easily have some stupid hand like Q8 here. maybe pocket 6s or something. this is 2nl after all. lots of players dont even know about being committed to the pot.

BTW he wasnt c betting he was donk betting since you were the PFRer. He was trying to steal the pot hoping you didnt hit that board. He probs put you on AK. lols. They always say that in the chat... i had you on AK...
 
S

soonerdel

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Total posts
195
Chips
0
write down the villains name and look him up every time u play.
 
thepokerkid123

thepokerkid123

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Total posts
917
Chips
0
$4 NL HE Full Ring: Having trouble putting this villain on a range
You're never going to reliably put people on hands. Put them on ranges, you will make more money.

Your opponent's range is really wide in this hand. It's 4nl, he's playing with a short stack, he open limped and called, he is as fishy as they get.
His range after limp-calling pre-flop is only very rarely going to get defined to a couple of hands, there's tons of junk in his range that he'll find all kinds of excuses to do all sorts of random stuff with.

You have an overpair and he hasn't done anything to polarize his range yet (which would only sometimes allow you to fold) and we've got a short effective stack. If you can reasonably give him a narrow enough range to allow you to do anything except play for stacks then you should be playing up in the nosebleeds and making ezmoney.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
Put more monies in preflop (10c-14c is a good raise size). Otherwise, I like how you played this. Might raise the flop a little larger as well.

And yeah, who cares what hand he has. When he takes this betting pattern, QQ is pretty much the nuts. I'd say his range is something like 7x, any pair below T's, heart draws, gut shots, and overcards & ace highs that believe "well, I just don't think he has a ten and he's just bluffing, so I'm going to call hope I hit something on the turn". Just cram it in, and be surprised at how much of his junk he'll actually call with.
 
forsakenone

forsakenone

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Total posts
1,385
Chips
0
this is the typical fish you find at these stakes, i would say he had a 7 or maybe a smaller pair like 55 66 44.
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

Resident Thugmaster
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Total posts
3,127
Chips
0
Put more monies in preflop (10c-14c is a good raise size). Otherwise, I like how you played this. Might raise the flop a little larger as well.
thank God someone said this. 6 cents is way too small at these stakes
 
Pascal-lf

Pascal-lf

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Total posts
3,161
Awards
1
Chips
1
It worked for me - 3x standard raise. Still use it at 5NL.
 
thepokerkid123

thepokerkid123

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Total posts
917
Chips
0
It worked for me - 3x standard raise. Still use it at 5NL.

They are right.

Basically everyone who takes poker seriously plays tight in the micros (this coming from someone who came through these stakes playing very loose). If your range is tighter than your opponent's then a bigger raise size is an advantage.

You will almost certainly see an increased winrate by changing you sizing from 3bb to 4bb (possibly 5bb) at least up to 10nl. I have nothing against 7bb with big pocket pairs at 5nl or lower (or at any equally fishy table higher up).
 
thepokerkid123

thepokerkid123

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Total posts
917
Chips
0
Hmmm, didn't see the limper. Meh, add +1bb per limper behind everything I just said.
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Chips
0
thank God someone said this. 6 cents is way too small at these stakes

Def

At these stakes raises should be much higher.

Your raise size should be reflective of the overall range you play.

The only reason to lower the raise amount is if you widen your range and the only reason to widen your range is if people keep folding to these larger bets made with premium hands.

At these stakes people don't fold so we play tight and raise big with a very narrow and strong range.

This is very basic poker we are simply exploiting the fact that people call too much at these stakes and will call down with trash hands postflop.

We dont adjust until out opponents adjust.
 
Pascal-lf

Pascal-lf

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Total posts
3,161
Awards
1
Chips
1
I'll give opening larger a go next time I play - I do 3x +1 per limper, should I make it 5x +1 per limper?

And I already play tight :)
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 14, 2008
Total posts
6,236
Chips
0
I'll give opening larger a go next time I play - I do 3x +1 per limper, should I make it 5x +1 per limper?

And I already play tight :)

yes if you open 5-6 bb then with 100bb stacks you get an SPR of about 7-8 which is amazing when playing TPTK and overpair type hands.

If you open 3bb you get an SPR of about 13 which favours drawing type hands.. but there arent many drawing hands in your range.
 
Pascal-lf

Pascal-lf

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Total posts
3,161
Awards
1
Chips
1
Awesome, thanks for the info Stu.

Will report back later to let you know how it went and may have a couple more questions if that's OK - actually, I'll make a new thread to stop clogging up this one :)
 
belerophon

belerophon

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Total posts
346
Chips
0
I really appreciate all the responses. I'll take the info about raising larger preflop into consideration.

I have been finding even at 2nl larger raises discourage action which is what led me to smaller preflop raises. My range is probably wider than it needs to be as well.

Thanks again.
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands
Top