$4 NLHE Full Ring: Flush on the river, I have top full house, he goes all in...

Duplicity · Apr 11, 2010

$4 NL HE Full Ring: Flush on the river, I have top full house, he goes all in...

Sorry, not much info on the villian, but I was wondering what range you guys put him on with his all in on the river?
poker stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG): $1.36
CO: $0.82
BTN: $1.90
SB: $0.94
BB: $1.55

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is UTG with 9

Q

Hero calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, BTN calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, BB checks

Flop: ($0.10) 9

5

(5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.08, CO folds, BTN folds, SB calls $0.08, BB folds

Turn: ($0.26) 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.02, SB calls $0.02

River: ($0.30) 7

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.10, SB raises to $0.82 all in, Hero calls $0.72

tenbob · Apr 11, 2010

Wowzer, bit of a trainwreak.

Fold pre-flop.
Bet more on the turn.
Bet more on the river.

Ubercroz · Apr 11, 2010

I would put him on a worse hand than you have... I dont really see much point in trying to figure out a range here since you have a hand that you aren't going to fold ever.

Like tenbob said, you're UTG, you should be folding this hand preflop. You really shouldn't be limping from UTG ever it puts you in a really bad spot for the rest of the hand.

When you did hit the fop the bet was fine... I guess.

You filled up on the turn and should have bet like 1/2 the pot AT LEAST. What was your reason for a 2 cent pet into a .26 pot?

Everything in this hand looks like it happened by accident. Like neither you or the other guy have any idea what is going on and you just clicked the first button that didn't say "fold" on it.

If you're playing like this you really dont need to worry about a range of hands because there is nothing to define his range or yours other than you are at a table and are still playing so you MUST have two cards whatever they may be.

Wes747 · Apr 11, 2010

Lol man...this hand was played horribly from the start. As stated, never ever play 9Q from UTG...suited or unsuited. Horrible, horrible UTG hand.

Flop bet was fine, but min-bet on the turn is just....ridiculous. Bet at least 15 cents or so. Then on the river you should bet at least 30 cents or just raise him all in. If he'd call 1/2 pot he would call an all-in.

Also...buy in for full. Do you people even read other posts when you come here? If you're not going to buy in for full then you shouldn't be playing...its unprofitable!

orangepeeleo · Apr 12, 2010

Yeah i'd say you have bigger things to worry about than working out peoples ranges atm, just stick to knowing what cards to play in what positions for now dude.

Like others have said though, in this case it doesnt matter at all what his range is b/c you aren't folding ever but the play in the hand is terribad throughout so i'd suggest concentrating on the basics before you start trying to put people on ranges etc

Try this thread for starters dude

https://www.cardschat.com/f49/ring-game-hand-analysis-required-reading-144488/

Duplicity · Apr 12, 2010

I understand that the betting was very unorthodox for this hand. I felt like for 2 cents it was worth it to see what cards come down and I happened to get the top full house. I bet 2 cents on the turn because I thought this guy was on trip 5s on the flop or the flush draw and I didn't want him to put me on the 9s full of 5s. Very unfortunately for me the river card made a flush possible so when he went all in I thought that was what he was playing but he was slow playing 4 of a kind from the flop. I am not disagreeing that Q9 suited or unsuited is a crummy hand but I still got a full house out of it and it would have won the majority of the time. I am not trying to be immature or ignorant but I don't understand what the difference is if I play AK from UTG or Q9 from UTG on this particular hand the AK would have been worse than the Q9. Sure the AK would have saved me money because I would not have made a hand but the chances that someone flops 4 of a kind is very rare and the majority of the time I would have a winning hand. When I came to the table I had more money that the rest but I lost some waiting for strong hands and then after betting strong preflop having those strong hands not turn into anything besides an ace high. I appreciate the advice, I really do, but just saying that Q9 is a horrible hand or that my hand is a trainwreck is really not productive at all. There is an old addage that says "you can give a man a fish and feed him for a night or you can teach that man to fish and he will feed himself for the rest of his life" but if you just tell that man that he sucks at fishing and offer him very little truly constructive advice he will only learn what he is doing wrong not how to fix it orr why it is wrong.

Thanks again to everybody, I especially appreciate the constructive criticism / links to helpful information.

KyleJRM · Apr 12, 2010

You will lose more money than you win if you make a habit of limping in UTG with hands like that. The fact that it happened to hit this time was irrelevent.

fletchdad · Apr 12, 2010

KyleJRM said:
You will lose more money than you win if you make a habit of limping in UTG with hands like that. The fact that it happened to hit this time was irrelevent.

^^^^^^ This very true. If you limp a 2 7 os UTG and the flop comes three 7s, will that make it profitable to limp with 2 7 UTG in the future? Naaaaaaaaaaaa it wont.....

The Gent · Apr 12, 2010

I am no cash game player, but for me the situation as described is very fishy and will lose you money in the long run.

That said...

Pre flop you should be playing strong hands only, always think 'if I go on this hand and someone re-raises will I still play?'

I would suggest pocket pairs 99 - AA and AKs - AQs. Only these hands are able to stand a re-raise, obviously you will raise at least 2.5x BB so you should be facing something like a 6xBB re-raise, possibly more.

Making UTG calls like this in the long run will eat up far more than folding and waiting for hands or position.

If you do find yourself in this type of situation again I would suggest betting the flop (which you did

) as you may be ahead here and you need to find out if that is so, again a large re-raise will let you know.

Once you hit the boat then again a nice value bet is in order as you will be ahead almost always here, put in a decent bet, at least half pot.

The river is simple, you value bet for more money and if he re-raises all in you take a view, the only problem is quad 5s and you would have been all in on the turn if he had that.

abbbott · Apr 12, 2010

here's my help

Duplicity said:
Sorry, not much info on the villian, but I was wondering what range you guys put him on with his all in on the river?
Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG): $1.36
CO: $0.82
BTN: $1.90
SB: $0.94
BB: $1.55

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is UTG with 9

Q

Hero calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, BTN calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, BB checks

Flop: ($0.10) 9

5

5

(5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.08, CO folds, BTN folds, SB calls $0.08, BB folds

Turn: ($0.26) 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.02, SB calls $0.02

River: ($0.30) 7

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.10, SB raises to $0.82 all in, Hero calls $0.72

I wouldn't have pl;ayed Q-9 off UTG, but since you got lucky, what are you worring about? You think he's holding quads or something, I really don't understand what information you are trying to get here. I guess if you want to know what I put him on with an all in on the river is a pure bluff. If he filled up, he's looking to get you to call, if he has quad 5's he's looking to get you to call. An all in there is looking for you to go away, so what did he have anyway?

Abbbott

Wes747 · Apr 12, 2010

Duplicity said:
I understand that the betting was very unorthodox for this hand. I felt like for 2 cents it was worth it to see what cards come down and I happened to get the top full house. I bet 2 cents on the turn because I thought this guy was on trip 5s on the flop or the flush draw and I didn't want him to put me on the 9s full of 5s. Very unfortunately for me the river card made a flush possible so when he went all in I thought that was what he was playing but he was slow playing 4 of a kind from the flop. I am not disagreeing that Q9 suited or unsuited is a crummy hand but I still got a full house out of it and it would have won the majority of the time. I am not trying to be immature or ignorant but I don't understand what the difference is if I play AK from UTG or Q9 from UTG on this particular hand the AK would have been worse than the Q9. Sure the AK would have saved me money because I would not have made a hand but the chances that someone flops 4 of a kind is very rare and the majority of the time I would have a winning hand. When I came to the table I had more money that the rest but I lost some waiting for strong hands and then after betting strong preflop having those strong hands not turn into anything besides an ace high. I appreciate the advice, I really do, but just saying that Q9 is a horrible hand or that my hand is a trainwreck is really not productive at all. There is an old addage that says "you can give a man a fish and feed him for a night or you can teach that man to fish and he will feed himself for the rest of his life" but if you just tell that man that he sucks at fishing and offer him very little truly constructive advice he will only learn what he is doing wrong not how to fix it orr why it is wrong.

Thanks again to everybody, I especially appreciate the constructive criticism / links to helpful information.

I am not very good at explaining things, but I will say that you cannot play poker with this mindset. Saying that "Q9 was a better hand here than AK would have been" is absolutely ridiculous. I believe thats called being "results oriented". AK against Q9 wins something like 70% of the time. If you hit a Q or a 9 on the flop you can so easily get beaten by a better kicker. I've had AQ more times than I can count on a Q high flop and have seen people with Q9s go all-in just to lose. Its such an easily dominated hand that you should not be playing it. Sure once in a while you can hit a miracle flop, but then as was stated above....does this mean that you play 27 as well? Theoretically any hand can flop quads or a fullhouse...it doesn't mean you should play every hand. You will lose so much money by calling every hand that you will become an extremely unprofitable player.

I hope someone can clean up my arguments a little better so that you can better understand why this is an incorrect way to look at the game of poker.

baudib1 · Apr 12, 2010

Q9o vs. top 37%, which is a really wide range

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.128% 39.29% 01.84% 3584626332 167516958.00 { Q9o }
Hand 1: 58.872% 57.04% 01.84% 5203495464 167516958.00 { 22+, A2s+, K3s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, A4o+, K7o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }

Q9 vs. top 17%, which is closer to a good range you should play
equity win tie pots won pots tied

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 29.565% 29.09% 00.48% 585756768 9584352.00 { Q9o }
Hand 1: 70.435% 69.96% 00.48% 1408744032 9584352.00 { 88+, ATs+, KTs+, QJs, AJo+ }

and you're out of position.

BTW, you DO NOT have the best possible full house, that would be 97. Regardless, you're never folding on this river.

No Brainer · Apr 14, 2010

Check this out!!

https://www.cardschat.com/poker-strategy.php - Read through these articles one at a time.

https://www.cardschat.com/position-in-poker.php - Specific article about playing in position.

bgomez89 · Apr 14, 2010

Wes747 said:
Lol man...this hand was played horribly from the start. As stated, never ever play 9Q from UTG...suited or unsuited. Horrible, horrible UTG hand.

Flop bet was fine, but min-bet on the turn is just....ridiculous. Bet at least 15 cents or so. Then on the river you should bet at least 30 cents or just raise him all in. If he'd call 1/2 pot he would call an all-in.

Also...buy in for full. Do you people even read other posts when you come here? If you're not going to buy in for full then you shouldn't be playing...its unprofitable!

Meh I wouldn't go as far as saying to NEVER play q9 utg. If you're at a passive table or feel like you can outplay I wouldn't mind raising pre from utg with this hand. Not saying its a good hand and you should always do this but raising it preflop is m
much better than limping

Stu_Ungar · Apr 14, 2010

I tried to write a constructive post but there is just too much wrong happening in one hand to really salvage anything.

Its difficult to give pointers when everything is wrong and clearly you cant see why.

My advice would be to play a set hand range form each position.

Read this guide

https://www.cardschat.com/f49/10k-post-micro-stakes-full-ring-112836/

Stick to the hand ranges in about the 8th paragraph.

Until you understand why good hand ranges look like this just take my word that they do.

Dont limp, EVER for the time being just take it as a rule you do not limp under any circumstances. The few occasions that you do will become apparent later, right now if you limp you are doing the wrong thing!

Just go from there, there really isnt much point in discussing this particular hand further, but stick to the hand guide and we will help on future hands you post (of course these will all be with good starting hands HINT HINT)

EDIT: one thing he did do correctly was to post in the correct format!

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$4 NLHE Full Ring: Flush on the river, I have top full house, he goes all in...

Duplicity

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tenbob

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Ubercroz

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Wes747

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orangepeeleo

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Duplicity

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KyleJRM

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fletchdad

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The Gent

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abbbott

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Wes747

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No Brainer

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Stu_Ungar

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