$4 NLHE Full Ring: calling an all in with ace high- clutch or retarded?

teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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I thought it was clutch. Any/all feedback welcome, esp. on flop play.

a 3-bet stat of 6.9 will include down to A9o, (I feel, lol, haven't checked) so it was clear wat his hand was when he shoved. no pair and a draw. tho, i s'pose a pair and a draw could do it, but A7 and A3 are a bit low (even for this guy)

Merge - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 100 BB (VPIP: 15.22, PFR: 6.52, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 46)
MP: 93.25 BB (VPIP: 11.56, PFR: 5.27, 3Bet Preflop: 1.04, Hands: 593)
MP+1: 135.25 BB (VPIP: 19.53, PFR: 5.58, 3Bet Preflop: 1.10, Hands: 217)
MP+2: 240 BB (VPIP: 20.14, PFR: 6.47, 3Bet Preflop: 9.30, Hands: 140)
CO: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 16.23, PFR: 3.95, 3Bet Preflop: 0.99, Hands: 2,435)
Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 113.75 BB (VPIP: 17.32, PFR: 13.39, 3Bet Preflop: 6.90, Hands: 128)
BB: 215.75 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
UTG: 185.25 BB (VPIP: 20.29, PFR: 12.46, 3Bet Preflop: 3.31, Hands: 346)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K ♣ A♦

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB raises to 9 BB, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop: (19 BB, 2 players) 7♥ J♥ 3♥
SB bets 13 BB, Hero raises to 51 BB, SB raises to 104.75 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 40 BB and is all-in

:dontknow:
 
teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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I mean, my final call of his all-in I think was necessary.

But was my flop raise enough? was it right?
 
stevenright

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if you're planning to check raise that big on any flop i think you might just do it preflop, that flop coudve hit him in many ways
 
Figaroo2

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What are you 4 betting with if you aren't 4 betting AK especially in btn v sb confrontations?
I suspect if you look at his 3bet stat in the sb it will be much higher than 6.9 probably double that for a positionally aware 3 bettor. Go back and have a look see and report back!
4 bet preflop and call a 5 bet.
 
teh_colonel_saigon

teh_colonel_saigon

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For real? Wouldn't a 4-bet give him an opportunity to fold? Or to call/5-bet with better?

Why wouldn't we just flat and play knowing we have him dominated?

I pretty much only 4-bet AA/KK, should I be expanding my range? Is it common to 4-bet after a 3-bet from the blinds?

3 and 4 bets are the weakest (or at least "most uncomfortable") part of my play, so any feedback is welcome
 
Figaroo2

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Agreed flatting IP is ok. It does hand your opponent the initiative though. You will miss the flop 2 times out of 3 and will need to float an almost certain bet a fair amount.
So how do you defend your CO and btn raises generally then? Say you raise Ax suited x less then 8 and get 3 bet by the blinds?
There is a good explain of 4 betting in the free download on this link.
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/polished-poker-vol-i-free-poker-224449/

If you only 4 bet premium people can play perfectly against you...3 bet you and fold to a 4 bet knowing its the nuts. Once people get a decent amount of hands on you you won't get much action on your premiums.
 
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jj20002

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For real? Wouldn't a 4-bet give him an opportunity to fold? Or to call/5-bet with better?

Why wouldn't we just flat and play knowing we have him dominated?

if you have him dominated keep pushing preflop 4 bet and 5 bet, in fact is a blinds battle,

and then, once you see such a flop you better fold no chance you pay a shove considering at that moment your outs could be 6 could be 4 or could be zero!
 
weldphaser

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4bet pre for sure, you dont need to get to a flop every hand , like figaroo said if you not defenig with AK then what are you 4bing.

he has a 6% 3b , whih means its prob aroud 10% in the blinds. nothingwrong with 4b here and picking up 9bb"s .

post: hate it peronally, your 3b is way too big, if you wanna rais here do so so you have room to b/f
 
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Very, very bad. As played, fold the flop.
 
TEG2300

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What hands are better that fold to the flop raise?
What hands are worse that call?
If this player is not profitable against you what is the logic of the raise. I am not being cheeky I just do not see it.
 
TomLeach

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Cant comment too much because I would not take this line, however, on the flop, by raising you turn your hand into a bluff. All you represent here, is the flush, or TPTK, if he then raises you, either he knows youre full of shit, or he has a hand. Not sure why you would call the all in unless you knew he was spewey.
3-bet OOP either means a hand or hes getting out of line, has he done this often? Also a 6.9% range is 88+,ATs+,KTs+,AQo+.

His stats show he is a solid player. The flat isnt too bad depending on his post flop play, if he is nitty I would 3bet pre, whats the point of slowplaying if he will fold to a bet on the turn anyway. If youre happy to stack off on that flop youre happy to stack off pre.
 
Nathan Williams

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This should be a 4Bet preflop in most cases versus an opponent like this. Postflop is just spew. Just fold to the CBet as played on a board that is this bad for your hand. If you want to bluff raise your sizing should be much smaller. And calling the flop all-in here is massively -EV. You are absolutely crushed.
 
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tomnovember

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May be you shall fold to his shoving here
 
the_wonk

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when you open button he's going to likely put you on a wide range and 3-bet fairly wide in response, so AK is going to be way ahead of his range. so i 4-bet for value.

you also need to 4-bet AK to provide some diversity in your holdings (so you're not just there with KK/AA) imo.
 
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tomnovember

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If you are going to call any flop even if you have missed... Why not shove preflop?
 
TheGodson

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Fold, You beat absolutely nothing on that call. Even if he were to make this play with :9c4: :2h4: you'd be only slightly better.

Fold on the flop to the first bet even.
 
suby_rafael

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If you are planning to not 4bet pre flop being in position with AK then why do you even bother to suddenly go all out aggressive post flop when you completely missed, simply fold then.:eek:

It does look like a retarded play indeed now that you look at it, i am sure you do too thinking - "What the hell was i doing with the hand playing it that way ?". Crazy move indeed. :eek:
 
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