$4 NLHE Full Ring: 3-Betting AK, responding to 4-bets

Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 14/9/1

Alright - pretty much winged this hand completely. Would I have been better off smooth calling the raise? If my 3-bet DID make any sense, should I have sized it differently? And as played, how should I respond to the 4-bet?

Note: Villain's fold v 3-bet was 0/1 for 64 hands --> not much to go on.

No Limit Hold'em $0.02/$0.04
Merge Network
9 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com - Mac OS X hand history analysis and tracking

Stacks:
UTG - DeuceExMachina ($4.79)
UTG+1 - Gronkowski ($2.80)
UTG+2 - Acetodeuce ($3.06)
MP - Hero ($8.48)
MP2 - arrakis ($3.96)
CO - cpholdem21 ($3.22)
BTN - jeremynich1 ($4.00)
SB - Amara157 ($2.78)
BB - Sigsiggerson ($4.00)

Preflop: ($0.06, 9 players) Hero is MP with As Ks
DeuceExMachina raises to $0.14, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.32, 5 folds, DeuceExMachina raises to $0.80, 1 fold

Total Pot: $1.18

DeuceExMachina wins $1.18
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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I probably would not 3bet here against a nit
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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Yeah, I was very back and forth about the decision... I have almost zero feel for the 3-bet+ game, particularly since it's micros and I assume that at least for loose players, they'll just ship when I 3-bet. I guess I was hoooping that since he was a NIT he might fold to it.

Okay but on a similar line of thought, would flatting it after his raise be correct? I didn't have much read on him at that point, so I was basically just looking at those stats over 64 hands. Maybe this isn't correct against a NIT, but in most cases I'm not looking to fold AKs preflop - is that just totally wrong against a NIT?
 
Deco

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I flat pre. Villain is a nit, villain raised UTG, we are raising from MP.
 
Deco

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Okay but on a similar line of thought, would flatting it after his raise be correct? I didn't have much read on him at that point, so I was basically just looking at those stats over 64 hands. Maybe this isn't correct against a NIT, but in most cases I'm not looking to fold AKs preflop - is that just totally wrong against a NIT?

I doubt he's ever 4betting anything less than {AK,QQ+}. I fold.
 
acky100

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We are not looking to fold AKs against nits unless we knew they were super dooper nitty like 4/4, but against ure standard nit we just flat to keep their range as wide as possible, and we can make big hands and make it +EV with position etc on our side. Its nothing to get excited about though :)
 
B

baudib1

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There's nothing wrong with folding AK when a nit opens UTG.
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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He's not a 3/3, yeesh.

When you say that, are you referring to VPIP and PFR? (Sorry, I only recently started using stats, and CC.) Just want to make sure I actually understand ^.^:
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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yeah, thats right. :)

I like flatting here as well, keep in AQ etc, and some regs open baby pairs UTG and check/fold every missed flop at my limits..

can you ever really flat a 4 bet 100bb deep?
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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yeah, thats right. :)

I like flatting here as well, keep in AQ etc, and some regs open baby pairs UTG and check/fold every missed flop at my limits..

can you ever really flat a 4 bet 100bb deep?

Ok, cool. Yeah - flatting makes sense to me.

When you say flat the 4-bet 100BB deep, are you referring to effective stack sizes? Since Villain had ~100BB? Also, I didn't even for a second consider flatting the 4-bet.

Sorry to keep questioning new things on top of the old but... I want to make sure I understand what you said about ranges, since I only started thinking about ranges maybe a month ago (and even then I often forget lots of things while playing). So let me see if I've got this: by flatting the UTG raise, we keep the villain's range as wide as possible. By 3-betting, we know that any call or 4-bet we are getting is going to indicate a "distorted" range that will be narrower and therefore contain better hands on average, which we're more likely to have trouble beating with AKs.

Is that about right?
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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if you flat you've got a $1.60 pot with like $3.20 behind, thats why I don't like flatting 4 bets really..

yeah, I'm referring to effective stacks.

distorted?

but yeah, sounds about right.
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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if you flat you've got a $1.60 pot with like $3.20 behind, thats why I don't like flatting 4 bets really..
If I flat the 4-bet there should be $3.99 behind I believe?? But yes, point taken. SPR is a little scary.

distorted?
I know I've heard this used to describe a range that you've just raised against, but this may not be a helpful word to use. All I meant was that I sort of chopped off the bottom of the Villain's range by raising, because being a nit, we don't expect him to ever 4-bet light.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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at 100bb effective there'd be $3.20 behind.

and lol by who? not arguing against, just wondering.

but you summed it up, you clearly get it.
 
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