$4 NLHE Full Ring: 2 hands from 2NL I would like some input on

Wardo420

Wardo420

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Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
CO ($1.36)
Button ($2)
SB ($4.43)
BB ($2.14)
UTG ($2.61)
UTG+1 ($1.52)
Hero (MP1) ($2.25)
MP2 ($2.02)
MP3 ($2)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7
spade.gif
, 8
spade.gif

2 folds, Hero bets $0.07, 5 folds, BB calls $0.05
Flop: ($0.15) 6
diamond.gif
, 9
heart.gif
, 7
heart.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10
Turn: ($0.35) 9
club.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.24, BB calls $0.24

BB's stats over about 80 hands were 10/5 AggFactor: 1.5

Villain was multitabling 12 tables. The table had been playing pretty tight. The three players to my left were multitabling 6-9 tables, and running preflop stats similar to BB.

Should I have given up after the check/call on the flop, or is the 9 a decent card to bet again? My plan after his check/call on the turn was to shut down on the river, except maybe a non-heart 5 or 10.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
MP2 ($1.25)
MP3 ($2.15)
CO ($4.51)
Button ($1.95)
SB ($2.56)
BB ($1.57)
Hero (UTG) ($2.62)
UTG+1 ($1.98)
MP1 ($2)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with K
diamond.gif
, K
heart.gif

Hero bets $0.07, 5 folds, Button calls $0.07, 1 fold, BB calls $0.05
Flop: ($0.22) 2
diamond.gif
, 6
diamond.gif
, 5
heart.gif
(3 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.28, Button raises to $0.88, 1 fold

Button is same villain from hand above 10/5/1.5
BB was running 40/15/3.6

Same table as the hand above, several orbits later. Am I wrong on leaning towards a fold in this spot?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Hand 1 looks fine and I can't ever fold hand 2 since the button has a million draws in his range. Shove!
 
F

fx20736

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Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
CO ($1.36)
Button ($2)
SB ($4.43)
BB ($2.14)
UTG ($2.61)
UTG+1 ($1.52)
Hero (MP1) ($2.25)
MP2 ($2.02)
MP3 ($2)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7
spade.gif
, 8
spade.gif

2 folds, Hero bets $0.07, 5 folds, BB calls $0.05
Flop: ($0.15) 6
diamond.gif
, 9
heart.gif
, 7
heart.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10
Turn: ($0.35) 9
club.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.24, BB calls $0.24

BB's stats over about 80 hands were 10/5 AggFactor: 1.5

Villain was multitabling 12 tables. The table had been playing pretty tight. The three players to my left were multitabling 6-9 tables, and running preflop stats similar to BB.

Should I have given up after the check/call on the flop, or is the 9 a decent card to bet again? My plan after his check/call on the turn was to shut down on the river, except maybe a non-heart 5 or 10.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
MP2 ($1.25)
MP3 ($2.15)
CO ($4.51)
Button ($1.95)
SB ($2.56)
BB ($1.57)
Hero (UTG) ($2.62)
UTG+1 ($1.98)
MP1 ($2)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with K
diamond.gif
, K
heart.gif

Hero bets $0.07, 5 folds, Button calls $0.07, 1 fold, BB calls $0.05
Flop: ($0.22) 2
diamond.gif
, 6
diamond.gif
, 5
heart.gif
(3 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.28, Button raises to $0.88, 1 fold

Button is same villain from hand above 10/5/1.5
BB was running 40/15/3.6

Same table as the hand above, several orbits later. Am I wrong on leaning towards a fold in this spot?

Hand #1 betting turn is the correct move. If you check and he bets you lose track of where you are in the hand. Better to bet/fold here. You did fine.

Hand #2: like WV said, too many draws in his range. If he has a set so be it. Villain is really tight but not too aggressive. If his PFR is 5 he is only raising a range of TT+ AJs+ AQo+ so from the button he is calling here with maybe something like 99-22,A9s-A2s,KTs+,QTs+,JTs. Against that range on that board you have about 75% equity, so easy shove.
 

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rssurfer54

rssurfer54

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not folding hand 2, hand 1 is fine.

biggest mistake in either hand is table selection. why would you play a tight table with 4 multitabling (probable) regs at 2nl? find an easier table.
 
Wardo420

Wardo420

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not folding hand 2, hand 1 is fine.

biggest mistake in either hand is table selection. why would you play a tight table with 4 multitabling (probable) regs at 2nl? find an easier table.

Good point, that is definitely one thing I don't do well with. I guess I just picked the table going by highest average players per flop and average pot in the main lobby. Do you have any other suggestions as to more profitable table selection?
 
rssurfer54

rssurfer54

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Good point, that is definitely one thing I don't do well with. I guess I just picked the table going by highest average players per flop and average pot in the main lobby. Do you have any other suggestions as to more profitable table selection?

Thats what I do as well. But tables can quickly change dynamics, since these are also the tables the other regs will be picking. So don't be afraid to leave a table if a lot of the fish leave, and get replaced by regs, since fish wont usually use waiting lists.
 
bgomez89

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Hand 1 looks fine and I can't ever fold hand 2 since the button has a million draws in his range. Shove!

do 2nl, 10/5s really semi-bluff in hand 2? I think he either has a set or a middle pocket pair.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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do 2nl, 10/5s really semi-bluff in hand 2? I think he either has a set or a middle pocket pair.

Ok.

Even if he only has sets/77+ We have a huge equity edge and we still stack, right?
 
C

ComplexPlaya

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Well all points have been covered, I agree on hand #2 button has a draw about never, but his overpairs make it good to stack off. Also +1 to horrible table selection. Since you use a hud stay at the table with the juicy players that show up in your hud.

Hand 1 - I think c/f turn and river. Double barreling is not a good idea because the second 9 changes nothing and w/e he called the flop with he will call the turn with (he is 10/5 after all)
 
Numbuh 0ne

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I think I would have checked the turn in hand 1 because I don't think we have any fold equity except maybe against flush draws and since a lot of bad cards hit on the river and only a couple good ones I want a smaller pot. We also have a little bit of equity so I like seeing a showdown if my straight doesn't hit. In hand 2 I agree with everyone else you should go ahead and get it in.
 
Wardo420

Wardo420

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Well all points have been covered, I agree on hand #2 button has a draw about never, but his overpairs make it good to stack off. Also +1 to horrible table selection. Since you use a hud stay at the table with the juicy players that show up in your hud.

Hand 1 - I think c/f turn and river. Double barreling is not a good idea because the second 9 changes nothing and w/e he called the flop with he will call the turn with (he is 10/5 after all)

The player to my right was 40/15 or something over ~50 hands, so with him to my right I just stayed at the table. I table hop a lot trying to find fishy players to my right. Often it seems they end up on my left and I have to change again.

What would you put him on based on how he has played the hand up to the the point of checking the turn? Flat calling OOP preflop, check/calling the flop cbet, and checking the turn. I didn't really put him on some type of overpair since I figured he would have 3bet preflop. A set by the turn seemed unlikely, as two 7s and two 9s were accounted for, although not impossible.
 
Michael69

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i'd definately be shoving hand 2 there.
 
bgomez89

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Ok.

Even if he only has sets/77+ We have a huge equity edge and we still stack, right?

yeah im not folding hand 2. He could definitely be doing this with 77+ like you said
 
ChuckTs

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Have you guys noticed that hand 2, BB donked, we raised, and the BTN repopped?

His range is a lot stronger than simply raising a cbet, or even donk/3betting imo.
 
forsakenone

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ok, here is what you need to do ok?

hand nr 1 fold, and leave the table. you will win more money this way, mkey?

hand nr 2, read some posts around here, and find out at 2nl you should raise more than 7c, i would make it 16c, make sure these multi-tabling guys don't see a cheap flop with 55 or something like that.

than stand up, leave and find another table with more fish.

good luck.
 
C

ComplexPlaya

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The player to my right was 40/15 or something over ~50 hands, so with him to my right I just stayed at the table. I table hop a lot trying to find fishy players to my right. Often it seems they end up on my left and I have to change again.

What would you put him on based on how he has played the hand up to the the point of checking the turn? Flat calling OOP preflop, check/calling the flop cbet, and checking the turn. I didn't really put him on some type of overpair since I figured he would have 3bet preflop. A set by the turn seemed unlikely, as two 7s and two 9s were accounted for, although not impossible.

The lower the stakes, the more people try to "trap" as a default. Given his stas and the board probably overpairs and sets, with some in between pairs like 88 mixed up. Sure you're thinking he floated me with AQ-AK but now he'll fold, but that's not a big enough part of his range to make barreling profitable.

Still leave the table, still no good imo. At 2NL if you don't have at least 2 villains/table that are something like 50/x 80/x etc. you're not table selecting well imo.
 
Wardo420

Wardo420

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I completely agree that table selection is something that I have to be more consistent with, thank you for the advice.

The lower the stakes, the more people try to "trap" as a default. Given his stas and the board probably overpairs and sets, with some in between pairs like 88 mixed up. Sure you're thinking he floated me with AQ-AK but now he'll fold, but that's not a big enough part of his range to make barreling profitable.

I think I would have checked the turn in hand 1 because I don't think we have any fold equity except maybe against flush draws and since a lot of bad cards hit on the river and only a couple good ones I want a smaller pot. We also have a little bit of equity so I like seeing a showdown if my straight doesn't hit. In hand 2 I agree with everyone else you should go ahead and get it in.

Looking back on hand one, I think I agree with checking back the turn and check/folding most rivers vs. these types of players. A lot of bad cards come on the river and I think keeping the pot smaller for the times this happens would be better. It worked for me this time, but in the future it is something I must keep in mind while playing.

River: ($0.83) 4
diamond.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
Total pot: $0.83 | Rake: $0.05
Results:
BB had A
heart.gif
, Q
heart.gif
(one pair, nines).
Hero had 7
spade.gif
, 8
spade.gif
(two pair, nines and sevens).
Outcome: Hero won $0.78


Does the way villain played hand one have any effect on your decision in hand two? Would it be enough to change your decision on hand two? What if BB shoves, which seems to happen often at 2NL?
 
ChuckTs

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Betting turn in hand 1 is fine.

Villain rarely has TT+, and the number of combos he has of trips/sets (or rather full houses) is really small, so we're actually good a lot of the time.

He has a lot of flush draws and worse pairs/pair+draws, none of which raise the turn.

Pretty easy bet/fold.

Let me ask you: if you check turn and river bricks off like that 4d or the 2d for example, are you calling a river bet?
 
Wardo420

Wardo420

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I would have to say yes I would be calling a reasonable bet. I also think I see what you're getting at. Betting the turn gives me a chance to win the pot then, charge draws, and is easy to let go if I happen to be check/raised or if he bets a bad river card...

I think I see why you are going with bet/folding here. If I have misunderstood you or anything I apologise.
 
ChuckTs

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Nope, that's exactly what I was implying. We b/f to charge draws before they miss and give up river (they may sometimes bluff, but that's not a guarantee, and sometimes (like with AQh), they decide to simply see a showdown).

Good stuff.
 
Wardo420

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Thanks for the insight, it really helps.

Do you have any other thoughts on the second hand, other than what you have already posted?
 
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