$4 NLHE 6-max: Third barrel after c-bet w/ gutshot, barrel with FD

LuckyChippy

LuckyChippy

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Villain is 11/7 over 45 hands 0% 3-bet. Is bet OOP a donk bet? it's 33% fwiw.

So he calls and checks flop, I have the gutshot + BDNFD, 2 overs e.g the nuts so I c-bet. He calls and I turn my NFD and double barrel. I miss the river and it fills two gutshots. My question is can I fire the third barrel. He's played it passively all the way but his range is fairly well defined by this point.

Ask if you need any more stats, obv 45 isn't a lot though.


full tilt poker $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1055564
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP: $2.00
CO: $2.29
Hero (BTN): $2.00
SB: $2.09
BB: $2.57
UTG: $1.57

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN with A K
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, 1 fold, BB calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.17) Q J 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10

Turn: ($0.37) 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.24, BB calls $0.24

River: ($0.85) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero requests TIME, Hero?
 
bgomez89

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check behind, he's probably not giving up. Flush and KT hit their draws, I see no reason to bet here
 
LuckyChippy

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You think he checks his flush on the turn then again on the river? How big a part of his range is this do you think? What parts of his range do you think we can make him fold and which we can't?

I'm not trying to be an arse I just want to follow your thought process.
 
LuckyChippy

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I've just been through pokerstove and how I perceive his range by the river is 100% against my hand, which I thought was funny. Is this a reason to check back or bet?
 
No Brainer

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You can only fire a third barrel here if you feel you can make him fold a part of that range. You can only make him fold a part of that range if he puts you on a range that has improved on the river and now beats his hand. This is 2NL so he probably doesn't care what cards you have, he has pair so he calls all the way.

Check behind as he will call another bet and you say his range beats you 100%...
 
bgomez89

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You think he checks his flush on the turn then again on the river? How big a part of his range is this do you think? What parts of his range do you think we can make him fold and which we can't?

I'm not trying to be an arse I just want to follow your thought process.

You make a good point on do FDs or SDs c/c turn and check river too. I dont know, some fish try to "trap" and could be doing this.

What I meant was that we should check because he doesn't look like he's giving up on pairs that he has. If he had a FD or SD with KT then those made it. So since i don't think he's going to give up his pairs and the FD and SD possibly being there, i don't think we should bet.
 
LuckyChippy

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You make a good point on do FDs or SDs c/c turn and check river too. I dont know, some fish try to "trap" and could be doing this.

What I meant was that we should check because he doesn't look like he's giving up on pairs that he has. If he had a FD or SD with KT then those made it. So since i don't think he's going to give up his pairs and the FD and SD possibly being there, i don't think we should bet.

Fair enough, I agree that I'm only trying to fold out pairs on the river and I think this is the biggest part of his range but if he doesn't fold them then there's no point betting. The consensus seems to be that I don't have enough fold equity on the river to get him to fold them as he's played it pretty sticky.

@stubsy, if his range is mainly one pair hands (that's how I perceived it by the river) then have we not represented a range if not on the flop but the turn that beats this. Sure it's 2nl they don't think about my range exactly but I assume an 11/7 will think at least a little bit, he's thinking enough to press fold more often than not.

I'm starting to agree it's a check behind but it sucks to check to know you've lost 100% when his range is so weak compared to the board. I'm an aggro donk :).
 
WVHillbilly

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Guys this nitty hate folding (trust me I have years of experience trying). He's not folding any Q and rarely will he fold a J since from his perspective you're just a BTN raiser trying to push him around. I've fired many a third barrel on boards like this and I'll get called by hands as weak as TT. Give up now.
 
LuckyChippy

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Guys this nitty hate folding (trust me I have years of experience trying). He's not folding any Q and rarely will he fold a J since from his perspective you're just a BTN raiser trying to push him around. I've fired many a third barrel on boards like this and I'll get called by hands as weak as TT. Give up now.

Sad face. Ok I'll keep it in mind for the future, these guys aren't the best to make fold TP/SPGK. It just sucks when you narrow their range down to something relatively weak and still can't get them to fold.

To just go over my thinking for the hand and whether it was correct (trying to make him fold wasn't ldo).

He cold calls in the BB a button open from a wide but standard range from an aggressive TAG (yeah I just called my self a good reg, big wup, wanna fight about it?). He's playing 11/7 so I gave him a range about 88-JJ,AJs-AQs,KQs/KQo. Something like that, hands he wants to play but doesn't want to raise.

Flop comes QdJd6s. He checks I bet. Not really thinned it down that much, I think you can get rid of JJ as he'd probs raise and there's basically no sets.

Ch/calls turn again. I'm basically getting rid of underpairs here now and it's looking like only a TP/SP or a FD. FD doesn't hit on the river and he checks. He only has TP/SP with a good kicker here right?
 
WVHillbilly

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Yeah, that's what he has most of the time. He has basically zero FDs here because you hold the Ad and he's unlikely to call for a 4 card flush with just the Kd. You also beat any missed draws he might have in his range, so betting against those accomplishes nothing.

Even if you check behind and he shows you KJ don't fool yourself into thinking that you should have bet because he's VERY unlikely to fold it. If you had opened from say MP or EP he usually gives up on the turn with 2nd pair, but as a BTN opener you're not getting any credit.

As a side note if you held AQ in this exact same spot it's a great time to go for 3 streets of value because he WILL certainly call with worse.
 
NineLions

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Guys this nitty hate folding (trust me I have years of experience trying). He's not folding any Q and rarely will he fold a J since from his perspective you're just a BTN raiser trying to push him around. I've fired many a third barrel on boards like this and I'll get called by hands as weak as TT. Give up now.

^^ His Q isn't folding, J or TT are folding sometimes but not often either. Some will, but over 45 hands and without seeing him do so before I don't think a 3rd barrel works often enough here.
 
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