$4 NLHE 6-max: shoving nutflushdraw against 2 opponents on the flop

M

matefiu

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Total posts
13
Chips
0
$4.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players -
BTN: $6.65 - VPIP: 11, PFR: 11, 3B: 0, AF: 0,0, hands: 19
SB: $3.96 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 16, 3B: 0, AF: 3,0, Hands: 81
BB: $4.30 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 13, 3B: 2, AF: 3,0, Hands: 1228
UTG: $3.10 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 12, 3B: 7, AF: 3,3, Hands: 187
MP: $11.43 - VPIP: 33, PFR: 30, 3B: 20, AF: 5,0, Hands: 40
Hero (CO): $4.00 - VPIP: 36, PFR: 17, 3B: 5, AF: 2,6, Hands: 8790
Hi community,

hier is a question: I know, that I was the underdog, but I had two opponents and therefore decided to shove nutflushdraw on the flop. What do you think?
Greetings,
m


Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero is CO with A :spade: 9 :club:
1 fold, MP raises to $0.16, Hero raises to $0.28, 1 fold, SB calls $0.26, 1 fold, MP raises to $0.62, Hero calls $0.34, SB calls $0.34

Flop: ($1.90) J :spade: 2 :spade: 4 :spade: (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets $1.42, Hero raises to $3.38, SB calls $3.34 all in, MP calls $1.96

Turn: ($12.00) 7 :heart: (3 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($12.00) 5 :spade: (3 players - 1 is all in)
 
A

AlwaysPlanAhe

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Total posts
155
Awards
1
Chips
2
Preflop was a catastrophe, flop is close.
 
Yoshimiii

Yoshimiii

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Total posts
1,058
Chips
0
Preflop was a catastrophe, flop is close.

I am sure that will really help him with his game -_-...

Anyway as for the hand; I wouldn't 3 bet A/9 pre-flop unless the villain is raising etleast 70% of his hands and his VPIP is near 100%, you have position on him so you can just call and keep his weaker holdings in. 3 betting pre-flop makes him fold weaker and only call/raise when he has you dominated with higher aces probably. Also your 3 bet size pre-flop is too small, make it 3x original raisers open, which in this case would be $0.48 as you are giving him too good pot odds.

Once he 4 bets you even with the great pot odds you're getting it's still a fold I think, he either has a higher ace or K/K, Q/Q (best scenario) and you're getting reverse implied odds if you hit your ace and you're dominated.

On the flop you have little or no fold equity but you might be getting the right pot odds to shove, I think it's very close, you are if neither of them has a set and you definitely are if the SB shoves as well. So the flop you played it okay, but if you played it better Pre-flop you wouldn't have got into that situation and got lucky.
 
A

AlwaysPlanAhe

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Total posts
155
Awards
1
Chips
2
I am sure that will really help him with his game -_-...

It's not like there's much help to give. Don't 3bet/call A9 preflop and he has 9-12 outs with no FE on the flop so it's close...
 
Yoshimiii

Yoshimiii

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Total posts
1,058
Chips
0
It's not like there's much help to give. Don't 3bet/call A9 preflop and he has 9-12 outs on the flop so it's close...

Instead of just saying it's a catastrophe how about you explain why his play was bad or he might go and make this mistake again...
 
A

AlwaysPlanAhe

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Total posts
155
Awards
1
Chips
2
Instead of just saying it's a catastrophe how about you explain why his play was bad or he might go and make this mistake again...

If you think something needs to be added to a thread then add it yourself without moaning. I will post however much information I feel like posting and that amount is none of your business.
 
Lucothefish

Lucothefish

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Total posts
656
Chips
0
Whoa settle down ladies, sheesh.

Some of these posters never come back so a short answer to get the ball rolling is often the right amount of energy to expend, they come back for more if they want it. No need to get all catty on the internets though :p
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

Jammin................
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Total posts
11,706
Awards
2
Chips
122
Hmmmmm..

But to OP:

I hate the 3 bet in all respects. Sizing, and simply the fact that you 3 bet this player.Stats make him look like the guy who is gonna give you a hard time, so IMO just fold pre.

Why are you 3 betting here anyway? And once you DO 3 bet, what do you think his 4 betting range vs you is? Calling the 4 bet is also just bad. Yoshi explained a few reasons why. Not to mention that you cant be trapping or hitting the flop hard with your hand, so calling is just self destructive.

Once MP leads into you OTF I dont think you have much FE so you are ONLY playing your draw. I gave him around a 5.5% nutted 4 bet range, and you are way behind, and still 45% OTF Vs that range, which has almost certainly narrowed OTF.

Even give him some bluffs and make him 9.2% pre, you are still behind enough that you cant call, or 5 bet pre since IMO you have little to no FE once you 5 bet.. Since his range narrows and is probably weighted to the very nutted as the hand continues, you are probably WB OTF and should fold.

Lesson? Fold pre.
 
M

matefiu

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Total posts
13
Chips
0
okay guys, thanks, I know that the preflop play was khm... daring, or simply bad. I was more curious about the flop play.
greetings
m
 
Full Flush Poker
Top