$4 NLHE 6-max: Are shoves like this bad?

Cake - $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Holdem (5 players)
Cake Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com
SB Hero: $4.01
BB: $6.60
UTG: $1.82
CO: $1.24
BTN: $1.45
Pre-flop: ($0.06) Hero is SB and dealt :,8: :s:
2 folds, BTN calls $0.04, Hero calls $0.02, BB checks
Flop: ($0.12) (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, BTN bets $0.04, Hero raises to $0.24, BB folds, BTN calls $0.20
Turn: ($0.60) (2 players)
Hero bets $3.73 (All-in), BTN calls $1.17 (All-in), returned $0
River: ($5.50) (2 players)


are shoves like this bad? thoughts on how i should of played this hand?

bad question? not enough info? just wonder is it better to just half bet the turn or just shove and get it in. guessin its a bad question cuz nobody wants to answer? :-(

Fold pre.

Also, people don't like responding to hands that are boring or full of basic mistakes. This hand contains both. Easy fold pre, and then when you hit a 1 out of 50 flop, you should just get the money in.

Fold pre. Bet flop

fold pre lol, like many would say, or like they would also say, if you're going to play it, raise it-NEVER LIMP
check flop not good but you did big reraise so...
turn- with str8 an flush draws- might as well get it all in- tho on flop might be better time
also-many hands that still beat you out there
just fold pre- really

To give a direct answer to your question - shoving here is just foolhardy. 2 pair is a very average hand at showdown, especially staring at a possible completed straight, a flush draw, and maybe even a set. Honestly, did you even slow down to FULLY consider what he might be calling your check raise with? Then the T comes to make the straight so you shove?!?!?! You figure he's on a flush draw?!?! What if he has QJd? Very possible holding to call you with and go to the turn (among others).


The general rule is - Small hand? Keep it a small pot. Big hand? Make it a big pot. Two pair is not a big hand.


The question is why are you shoving here? What were you wanting to happen that you would escalate the risk factor to twice the size of the pot on an average hand? That's not playing poker as much as it's shooting craps or spinning the roulette wheel. If he has you beat or draws out on you then you screwed yourself. If he doesn't draw out (as in this case) you are pricing him out of the hand (but in these micro's they won't go away like they should all the time). Most of the results of a shove here are bad for you. The best you can hope for is he calls and misses a draw - but what if he has a set? What if he just folds? Risk your stack to make .60 cents? Not a great investment.

Why are people saying fold pre? It's only 2 cents and it is 4nl and you have an ace.

I would bet the flop. Lead out and test the waters. I don't mind the check raise, seems kind of like an unnecessary risk and over tricky for this level but why so much? If he bet 4, why not make it 12-16? And then why shove $1.17 instead of betting like pot? I would prefer to keep this A8 two pair hand to a smaller amount as it isn't a monster hand, but maybe $1.50 isn't bad.

I really have no idea what this guy has and I think his range includes a few hands that could beat you and it kind of seems like he might be slow rolling you. He also might be weakly calling down with AK-AJ or a dia draw or str8 draw or something dumb. It is 4nl.

If you are running a HUD you could make decisions based on stats (if you have any) or even just on how you think this guy was playing. Was he super tight? Or super loose? If he was a loose calling station, what you did was perfect. If he was super tight, what you did was suicidal and not getting value at all.

Yeah I'm not so opposed to playing A8 in a 6 max. Kind of teetering on the border (especially out of position) and I certainly would have raised PF - but a pardonable offense. Was it suited? If so I am certainly willing to see the flop with it in the SB if there is no raise. But flopping two pair will really get my guard up (after having been burned a few times).

Reptar7 said:

Why are people saying fold pre? It's only 2 cents and it is 4nl and you have an ace.ll.

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Because playing a bad hand in bad position is..... Bad?

c9h13no3 said:

Because playing a bad hand in bad position is..... Bad?

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A8 with 5 players is borderline - not bad. Position could make it bad but not the hand itself. Now add in that it was folded to the BTN who weakly limps. A raise here would not be out of the question.

Because we have a mediocre hand OOP is enough for me not to play it. Raising would be a million times better than limping

bgomez89 said:

Because we have a mediocre hand OOP is enough for me not to play it. Raising would be a million times better than limping

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Yep - I've raised it and I've folded it. Just depends on the table and especially my read on that guy playing the BTN.

oh alright i understand. yea my first thot was its only 2 cents n i hit two pair so i thot id check raise. villain is kinda limpy. wen he called my 24cents pot was already 60 cents an he only had 1.00 left. i dint really know wat else to do so i shoved. also would we rather lead here? or c/r flop? and wen i c/r is that too much? thanks for the replys guys i know its not a very good hh but i get stuck here sometimes. also will consider raisin in these spots too thanks

If you're playing 4nl then, "It's only 2 cents" should be out of the question. Play always, as though you're fighting for your BR. Definitely fold pre. ..As played, raise flop.. shove turn.

Demonomania said:

If you're playing 4nl then, "It's only 2 cents" should be out of the question.

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I think the opposite, every hand is a chance at an equitable situation. If you are playing for stacks and he has $1.45 and it is $0.02 to call, that's 1.37% which is way less than your percentage to win. You can beat that margin. If you fold you just throw that SB away and give up a winning spot. This probably isn't true for high stakes or mid stakes, but for 10NL and lower I believe it to be true. Of course, you could find better situations too. Just depends on how you want to play.

Reptar7 said:

I think the opposite, every hand is a chance at an equitable situation.

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Sure, but if BB has any clue as to what's going on, he'll raise IP & A8o folds. Small 2c loss but this eventually will impact OPs roll, especially if he's rolled correctly for 4nl.

Fold or raise pre.