$4 NLHE 6-max: Odd River Bet

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $2.20
Hero (BB): $4.00
UTG: $5.28
MP: $3.00
CO: $4.00
BTN: $4.00

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has A:heart: 3:spade:

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.08, Hero calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.16, 2 players) A:spade: 6:club: 2:diamond:
SB bets $0.08, Hero calls $0.08

Turn: ($0.32, 2 players) T:spade:
SB checks, Hero bets $0.19, SB calls $0.19

River: ($0.70, 2 players) K:heart:
SB bets $0.70, Hero?

Thoughts?

I feel like this is an easy call. All I keep telling myself is WHAT does he have?!

I just couldn't make sense of it. I was hoping you guys could help put some pieces together here. Would he check river with anything? I was prepared to fold turn if he bet big, but I thought he was giving up.

Idk... I'm folding river I think.... Line is really strange on his part but not a lot of 4NL players bet the pot on the river with a bluff. Just fold and move on IMO... There will be better spots

For micro stacks, c-c turn and leading big on the river is usually not a bluff. In this scenario it could be a flush or a rivered two pair, or maybe a very weirdly played set. Villain must be bluffing more than 33% of the time to justify this call. From personal experience, I'd say 80-90% of the micro stakes players will have big hands in this spot, so easy fold.

I personally don't like calling against unknowns with weak aces. Usually i'd 3-bet or fold. Other streets were well played, maybe bet bigger on the turn to protect your hand.

twohaha said:

Other streets were well played, maybe bet bigger on the turn to protect your hand.

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See this is a concept I still need to figure out. Do we want to bet so big he folds worse? Or bet so big he only calls with better? I thought of this but wanted him to call with worse... That was at least what I was thinking at the time.

I probably just fold pre to be honest. He is short stacked and you won't make a good hand very often (this isn't a good hand). You barely get paid off the times you do hit a nice board. Just not worth it.

As played it's a clear fold. What does he ever have here that you beat? Ever? Looks like he has a really strong hand and was afraid to raise the turn and have you fold but now doesn't want it to check through on the river. When you take a call/bet line like this, he isn't bluffing enough rivers for this to ever be profitable.

And to answer your question above. We want to bet big enough to make him make mistakes. By betting around 3/4 pot here, he isn't getting great odds to call on gutshots or flush draws. But most will call with said hands, so that we make a killing in the long run when they brick so so often. We don't want worse to fold and we're possibly hoping that better folds such as maybe A7-A9. But honestly, your hand is pretty weak so meh, I think betting 2/3 here is fine and folding to any aggression, such as him betting pot on river lol.

Fold, just think, you are onlw winning to a bluff, the rest of the hands in his range beat you. He likely has a set, but he could have doubles also. Clear fold

This is not a knock blob, but you sound a little nit'ish. Blind vs Blind this has to be a fine hand to play preflop. I mean, position with an A? Am I way off on thinking that? We are in agreement on the river BTW. Just making it a convo.

EDIT: Even with him being SS

HomeBrewer said:

This is not a knock blob, but you sound a little nit'ish. Blind vs Blind this has to be a fine hand to play preflop. I mean, position with an A? Am I way off on thinking that? We are in agreement on the river BTW. Just making it a convo.

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My most recent 15k hands I was running 27/24. So not a nit. Look at this hand alone. You flop top pair! Great! Did you get paid off? Oh, it appears you didn't because you folded. Or maybe you did call, in which you were most likely beat. See why the hand sucks? IF I'm playing this hand here, its gonna be a 3b/fold. Which I prob wouldn't do because, you guessed it, he's ss. And we don't win enough when we do hit. Anyway, I gotta get back to being a nit

I think pre-flop is fine, but river is a pretty clear fold. Yes, not many hands make sense, and about the only reasonable hand he might have in his bluff range is 45 for the double gutter.

John A said:

I think pre-flop is fine, but river is a pretty clear fold. Yes, not many hands make sense, and about the only reasonable hand he might have in his bluff range is 45 for the double gutter.

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I believe you misread. 45 isnt a double gutter here. And while I can see why you say preflop is fine, because yeah its not like a terrible call. Its close. But really, how profitable is he going to be here with A3o without good postflop skills? Probably not very.

I only like calling pre vs. someone who opens wide enough preflop but isn't a complete maniac postflop so that I can float brick flops and/or check it down and win often enough with A-high.

I'm in the camp of keeping people's calling ranges super wide so as to extract value with marginal hands. We're looking to get called by 6x, and pocket pairs 77-KK. Hoping to fold someone off A9 isn't realistic.

river is a clear fold -- he has AK/KK.

Does anyone not prefer 3 betting A3o even in position here pre flop rather than call?

Also as played; fold river as others have indicated. We have a terrible kicker and this is the problem with calling A3o, even on Ace high flops, we're never super happy calling more than 2 streets unless we hit two pair.

HomeBrewer said:

This is not a knock blob, but

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I wasn't trying to upset anyone, just trying to stir the pot. I understand that pre flop decisions should have everything to do with skill post flop, and that I am not even close to optimal at either. I just find it hard to believe that the best action pre is to fold. And again, I do agree that river is a fold.

What if he jams on the river? Does that change anything?

HomeBrewer said:

I wasn't trying to upset anyone, just trying to stir the pot. I understand that pre flop decisions should have everything to do with skill post flop, and that I am not even close to optimal at either. I just find it hard to believe that the best action pre is to fold. And again, I do agree that river is a fold.

What if he jams on the river? Does that change anything?

Spoiler

He ended up having JQ.

I might be watching too many high level videos and thinking that I can play just as well as they do....

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Your preflop range directly correlates to your postflop abilities. Obviously you always open/raise AA because its super easy to play on later streets. We know what boards we crush.and we know what boards can crush us. But its different with A3o. Its hard to realize our equity on later streets and we will actually end up throwing away the best hand often enough, or we end up calling down with a worse hand often enough. So we just don't put ourselves in these marginal spots by folding pre. From here the more you learn and the better you get, the better you will be at playing small postflop edges profitably.

Well put blob. Thanks for the input. It is all starting to sink in now.

It's a fold on the river. He's not betting there with anything that you can beat.

Pre, I tend to fold unsuited ace rags. Like others have said, can't make big hands very often and end up paying off villain's paired ace more than it's worth calling pre.

ramdeebam said:

Does anyone not prefer 3 betting A3o even in position here pre flop rather than call?

Also as played; fold river as others have indicated. We have a terrible kicker and this is the problem with calling A3o, even on Ace high flops, we're never super happy calling more than 2 streets unless we hit two pair.

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I would not play A3o at all even though you have your point. Flatting is terrible. And on that flop we beat no Ace. Actually we cannot even attempt to steal the pot. Nothing adds up there.

ramdeebam said:

Does anyone not prefer 3 betting A3o even in position here pre flop rather than call?

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Against short stack opponent who's probably going to flat our 3 bet with a wide range despite being oop. What do you plan on doing when we whiff the board and he may have made some crappy 1 pair or overs or a gut shot with most of his stack already in the middle?


In this spot I honestly prefer to call/fold.




Another thing is do you know why you're 3betting? Is it for value, are you trying to fold out anything that's ahead of us (fat chance) are you just 3betting since you're ahead of any two cards and want to take the initiative?. Because I don't like bloating the pot with a marginal hand unless I have a plan for post flop which I don't in this case because of his stack size. If you have a plan then that's a different matter.

I didn't even notice he was a 50bb stack.

With stack sizes, I much prefer just folding pre. A3o just plays terrible we have a crappy kicker and we're never happy calling more than 1 or 2 streets unless we hit two pair or wheel which just isn't going happen enough with 50bb effective stacks to make calling profitable. Just based on the blocker and me assuming we was 100bb effective, I prefer 3B as a bluff IP but that's irrelevant now 50bb is the effective stack.

Fold pre. As played fold river.

Wow. Very glad I posted this. Really made me look at my tracker and my red/blue lines are laughable. I MEAN REALLY bad. Found some major leaks. Thanks again all.