$4 NLHE 6-max: can i bet for value here?

smokeme

smokeme

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Cake - $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Holdem (4 players)
Cake Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com
SB Hero: $5.09
BB: $2.12
UTG: $0.69
BTN: $10.24
Pre-flop: ($0.04) Hero is SB and dealt :jh4: :,a: :h:
UTG folds, BTN raises to $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, BB calls $0.06
Flop: ($0.30) :ad4: :7c4: :4s4: (3 players)
BB checks, BTN bets $0.18, Hero calls $0.18, BB folds
Turn: ($0.66) :ad4: :7c4: :4s4: :5c4: (2 players)
BTN bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40
River: ($1.46) :ad4: :7c4: :4s4: :5c4: :6d4: (2 players)

player i think has a wide range trapped me wit aces tho a couple times with the same bet sizing. wondering if its ok to bet here and how much. or check is fine?
 
bgomez89

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Why would you Want to donk bet river but not donk turn?
 
smokeme

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no i think i was button and he was on my right he checked to me river he was bettin into me i was floating him then he cheecked to me on the turn iono how to fix the hand
 
smokeme

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ugh i cant find that hand no more it disappeard or something guess it doesnt make sense now
but im suppose to be like button. and he was bettin into me i was just calling
i had A J
he raises preflop .14 i call
flop comes Ad 7c 4s
he bets .18 i call
turn is 5c
he bets .40 i call
river is 6d
he checks hero??

this is just a mess sorry everybody.
 
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WVHillbilly

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It's pretty thin unless you think he calls with 99-KK. You only beat A9/AT/A2 otherwise. Everything else he calls with beats you. Also you have to at least be a little concerned that he'll bluff ch/raise a river bet on that board.

Remember having the best hand is not enough reason to bet. You also need him to call with worse more often than he calls with better. I just check back.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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4 cards to a straight on board, I'm happy I didn't see a river barrel really.

betting here's turning your hand into a bluff, you just fold out a load of 2 pair hands really.
 
B

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Could consider b/f OOP but I'm still not sure what position we're in here. IP just check it back.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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you reckon WV?

if its a fish maybe.. I guess, everyones a fish at 4nl though, so yeah :rolleyes:
 
Deco

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Bet for value? Hell No!
If we did bet it would be as a bluff. vs an unknown 4NL opponents I don't want to.
Seeing as villains an unknown I check/fold.
 
WVHillbilly

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Bet for value? Hell No!
If we did bet it would be as a bluff. vs an unknown 4NL opponents I don't want to.
Seeing as villains an unknown I check/fold.
The hh is messed up we're actually IP here but it certainly a check behind.
 
Reptar7

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Like WV said, there is like nothing you are beating here. Just AT, A9, A2, and if he had some stupid ridic pockets and is just a donk unwilling to give up on JJ or QQ or something. The check on the river indicates he either is weak or scared of you, or he is super strong and trying to trap. Which it is, I don't know. I think you should have fold the turn tho. Since you called that and he checks the river, I would bet 50-80 cents on the river to try to force a fold. If it is really 50/50 here on whether he calls, then that is a winning play since you already put in so much and if you check you always lose it. The 50-80 cent bet looks perfect too, like you want to get called, but it also only doubles your lose, as opposed to tripling it or whatever.
 
WVHillbilly

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Like WV said, there is like nothing you are beating here. Just AT, A9, A2, and if he had some stupid ridic pockets and is just a donk unwilling to give up on JJ or QQ or something. The check on the river indicates he either is weak or scared of you, or he is super strong and trying to trap. Which it is, I don't know. I think you should have fold the turn tho. Since you called that and he checks the river, I would bet 50-80 cents on the river to try to force a fold. If it is really 50/50 here on whether he calls, then that is a winning play since you already put in so much and if you check you always lose it. The 50-80 cent bet looks perfect too, like you want to get called, but it also only doubles your lose, as opposed to tripling it or whatever.
Why bet? We are in position and can check behind to see SD.
 
Reptar7

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The hh is messed up we're actually IP here but it certainly a check behind.

Why bet? We are in position and can check behind to see SD.

Checking behind is always a loss though. you check, you lose that 66 cents or whatever he put in every time. He checked the river so he is either weak or super strong.

I mean I think he should have folded the turn, but based on what happened, I'd fire that river.
 
WVHillbilly

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What? He has a few Ax hands we beat and we beat any pp 99-KK. Betting only makes him fold the hands we beat but he NEVER folds any hand that beats us. Betting here would be really really bad.

We can bet 9 high but betting TP just makes no sense.
 
Reptar7

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What? He has a few Ax hands we beat and we beat any pp 99-KK. Betting only makes him fold the hands we beat but he NEVER folds any hand that beats us. Betting here would be really really bad.

We can bet 9 high but betting TP just makes no sense.

But what % of the time do you think he has us beat? I would guess around 75% of the time. Checking behind is good if you think you are winning half the time, or you just don't want to risk losing more ever and so you are just giving up. If you bet, I think he could fold hands like AK, AQ, A4, A5, A6, as well as those hands we have beat. That check on the river could mean he is doubting his hand strength.

This hand really doesn't matter to me though because I would have folded the turn. I think everyone should fold the turn, but if you aren't you have to be prepared to fire the river.
 
WVHillbilly

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None of those hands you listed fold to any normal sized river bet.
 
Reptar7

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None of those hands you listed fold to any normal sized river bet.

Meh. I really just hate this situation and wouldn't have got myself into it, but I think checking is a losing play, if you bet you can win, but I don't really care, since it doesn't matter to me. We'll just have to agree to disagree about what to do here. I'm guessing you wouldn't have got yourself into this situation either. The fact that the guy had trapped before makes it risky too.
 
Deco

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6x, XcXc, AT, A9, 89, air, can all bet this turn when dealing with an unknown.
I'm only folding AJ here when we have reads.

I agree I think we're behind on the river most the time but this isn't a reason to bet in itself. Even if we're behind 100% of the time a checkback loses us less money than a -EV bluff.
When we are ahead a decent portion of the time we need the bluff to be really EV+ to make it. Vs 4NL unknowns I am not confident twopair folds I'm happy to check back and hope for busted clubs, air or weaker aces.
 
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WVHillbilly

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Honestly I think the hand is fine as played as long as he checked back on the river.
 
Deco

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Um, what. If you think we are behind why call the turn?

I was clearly talking about the river as we were discussing whether to bet or not.
<Ninja Edited for further clarity>
 
Reptar7

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I was clearly talking about the river as we were discussing whether to bet or not.

Oh, I see you ninja edited it too, lol. But do you think we are ahead before the river? What changes?

I think the guy is more likely to have AK, AQ, or two pair before the river then to have hit that river, although that river does make it a near certainty for me that we are behind with AJ.
 
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