$4 NLHE 6-max: How much to value-bet w/AA

pcgnome

pcgnome

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Total posts
2,054
Awards
1
Chips
9
I am AA UTG. The reason thar I min raise is 'cuz I am new at this table and I don't want to scare anybody off. I am actually hoping for a reraise. The turn was a bad card, so I had to check. If he were to hit me w/ a big raise,I probably would have folded.
I am wondering how much I should value bet here w/ an A-hi flush out of position.
Lots of nasty cards out there on this one.
MERGE_GAME #3894546800299: Texas Hold'em NL $0.02/$0.04 08/12/2011 11:43:19
Table Santiago (38945468)
Seat 1: Dragonfang001 ($8.69 in chips)
Seat 2: PIKEBOY412 ($1.68 in chips)
Seat 3: igopoopy ($1.29 in chips) DEALER
Seat 4: iamtolucky11 ($4.25 in chips)
Seat 5: bostjannn ($4.59 in chips)
Seat 6: pcgnome99 ($3.96 in chips)
iamtolucky11: Post SB $0.02
bostjannn: Post BB $0.04
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pcgnome99 [Ad Ac]
pcgnome99: Raise $0.08
Dragonfang001: Call $0.08
PIKEBOY412: Call $0.08
igopoopy: Fold
iamtolucky11: Fold
bostjannn: Fold
*** FLOP *** [5c Qc 8c]
pcgnome99: Bet $0.16
Dragonfang001: Fold
PIKEBOY412: Call $0.16
*** TURN *** [Qs]
pcgnome99: Check
PIKEBOY412: Check
*** RIVER *** [Jc]
 
G

Gunner57

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Total posts
211
Chips
0
PC,

If you are looking to re-raise when UTG then I suggest that you limp in. min raise UTG can be considered very strong. At these stakes however no one will notice anyway.... I suggest you value bet the crap out of everything.

So I would just play ABC on this as your villians likely wont bite on your min raise or see what you are doing when you get fancy. So, with that said my suggestion to you is:

Pre:
Raise 3x BB

Flop: (we have over pair and 4 to nut flush)
1/2-pot size bet

Turn:
Check/call (as long as less than pot size bet)

River:
1/2 pot bet. Call raise.


You can likely get more value from villan than this if you know more about him and what he might be playing with but with the info provided is an unknown. With any luck he has Kc or AQ and you win a good size pot and get to show down AA at a new table.
 
pcgnome

pcgnome

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Total posts
2,054
Awards
1
Chips
9
Your making some good points, and I think this is a good guide line. but why would you check/call after there is a second queen on the board? If he had AQ, I would be way behind. I'm scared of that queen, and he missed a good chance to take the pot after the turn.
The best possible hand is quads, and next there are a few boats out there.
 
Last edited:
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
Bet/call the turn. Bet or shove the river
 
B

bigphatmike

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Total posts
84
Chips
0
i would bet at least half pot and try to make it look a little bit tricky. worst case scenario is that he folds and you still a 12bb hand: hope that helped
 
pcgnome

pcgnome

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Total posts
2,054
Awards
1
Chips
9
i would bet at least half pot and try to make it look a little bit tricky. worst case scenario is that he folds and you still a 12bb hand: hope that helped
I don't know where you want me to bet half the pot tho. If you bet the standard 1/2 the pot, is there any possibilty that you are leaving money out on the board ? That's my question. I want to max my profits.
 
Last edited:
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
Also, learn how to post HH's that don't make our eyes bleed

Not to single you out and I've certainly been accused of being overly harsh sometimes (and I'm not God's gift to poker either) but that's a little unfair. I think the whole premise of posting HHs comes with the assumption that hero may have played a hand pretty badly but that criticism should be constructive.

Saying something like, "not betting turn here is godawful" sounds harsh but is constructive. Saying "your HH makes our eyes bleed" doesn't really help.
 
pcgnome

pcgnome

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Total posts
2,054
Awards
1
Chips
9
Saying something like, "not betting turn here is godawful" sounds harsh but is constructive. Saying "your HH makes our eyes bleed" doesn't really help.
Would be much worse than "godawful" if I knew I had the best hand, but at this point I don't. I get your point tho.
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
oh, I just realized he was referring to the formatting of the HH, which is legit. my bad.
 
KerouacsDog

KerouacsDog

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Total posts
9,410
Chips
0
Stop minraising UTG

Also, learn how to post HH's that don't make our eyes bleed

this!

min-raising just invites trouble preflop,I'll call a min-raise with a very wide range, and hit or fold flop
 
eagle jim

eagle jim

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Total posts
758
Chips
0
At 4nl you have to bet more pf. Understand being new at the table but 3x or 4x it (If you are new they don't know what u usually raise and in most cases they don't care) 2x under the gun looks strong. When the Q pairs he can have a Q but their are fewer Q's for him to have now. Raise more pf, bet 1/2 pot the turn and call a reasonable raise.
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Total posts
5,389
Chips
0
I am AA UTG. The reason thar I min raise is 'cuz I am new at this table and I don't want to scare anybody off. I am actually hoping for a reraise. The turn was a bad card, so I had to check. If he were to hit me w/ a big raise,I probably would have folded.
I am wondering how much I should value bet here w/ an A-hi flush out of position.
Lots of nasty cards out there on this one.
MERGE_GAME #3894546800299: Texas Hold'em NL $0.02/$0.04 08/12/2011 11:43:19
Table Santiago (38945468)
Seat 1: Dragonfang001 ($8.69 in chips)
Seat 2: PIKEBOY412 ($1.68 in chips)
Seat 3: igopoopy ($1.29 in chips) DEALER
Seat 4: iamtolucky11 ($4.25 in chips)
Seat 5: bostjannn ($4.59 in chips)
Seat 6: pcgnome99 ($3.96 in chips)
iamtolucky11: Post SB $0.02
bostjannn: Post BB $0.04
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pcgnome99 [Ad Ac]
pcgnome99: Raise $0.08
Dragonfang001: Call $0.08
PIKEBOY412: Call $0.08
igopoopy: Fold
iamtolucky11: Fold
bostjannn: Fold
*** FLOP *** [5c Qc 8c]
pcgnome99: Bet $0.16
Dragonfang001: Fold
PIKEBOY412: Call $0.16
*** TURN *** Q♠
pcgnome99: Check
PIKEBOY412: Check
*** RIVER *** <font color='black'>J♣</font>
Min-raising premium hands from any position = lost value.
Personally, I'm betting 3/4 pot on the flop, turn and river.
 
pcgnome

pcgnome

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Total posts
2,054
Awards
1
Chips
9
this!

min-raising just invites trouble preflop,I'll call a min-raise with a very wide range, and hit or fold flop
I know. Thats why I did it. I'm looking for a reraise.I want more money in the pot It works most of the time.
I'm just digging myself into a deeper hole talking about the flop and the turn. What about the showdown ? I'm just wondering if anybody can guess what the villain has.
 
KerouacsDog

KerouacsDog

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Total posts
9,410
Chips
0
when u look for a reraise more often than not it doesnt happen, and you get lots of limpers with jump who hit their hands and kill ur hand.
villain had a fullhouse?
 
cardriverx

cardriverx

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Total posts
1,441
Awards
1
Chips
0
yeah raise at least 3x here please
 
pcgnome

pcgnome

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Total posts
2,054
Awards
1
Chips
9
when u look for a reraise more often than not it doesnt happen, and you get lots of limpers with jump who hit their hands and kill ur hand.
villain had a fullhouse?
Naw..I just realized that since he re-checked the turn he was looking for a free card on a drawing hand.
He had 9-T which meant he hit his gut shot on the river. If I had at least bet the pot, he would have called. It would have been hard to get away from such a rare hand, and I would have win a huge pot w/ a big cooler .
It turns out That I bet only 1/2 the pot, and won a whopping .61
 
G

Gunner57

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Total posts
211
Chips
0
Your making some good points, and I think this is a good guide line. but why would you check/call after there is a second queen on the board? If he had AQ, I would be way behind. I'm scared of that queen, and he missed a good chance to take the pot after the turn.
The best possible hand is quads, and next there are a few boats out there.


I wont argue that betting the turn here is wrong. I think a Turn bet is fine. For me however I would prefer to check in this particular situation. The reasons why are:

1) if he does not have a made hand we can only hope to get a call from him on the river. If he has weak 2 pair or AK type hands he may fold to a turn bet which is not what we want. He may call a 1/2 pot bet on river however with any 2 pair.

2) He may catch a strong flush on the river and then with our nut flush we get all of his stack!

3) he may bet out on turn since we showed weakness.

4) by Checking turn and if he checks behind we can disguise our hand and make it look like a bluff on the river.

5) he could have a Q or a flush right now but if so we still have lots of outs. We are only afraid if he has a full house but is not highly likely. If he does ve a Q, flush, or FH already we want to minimize the amount of money we put in the pot.

Essentially we get into a situation on the turn where he may fold the hands we beat and calls or raises the hands we are behind. What is awesome is if he does bet we still have some outs and there is almost no way we are drawing dead (I know QQ but very unlikely he has that).


By checking the turn I think we maximize the amount of money he will be willing to put in the pot if we have him beat while lowering the amount we loose if we are behind or dont catch what we need.


The only downside to checking the turn is if he catches a draw that beats us. However at most has 6 outs (67 off suite for OESD, subtract 2 of 8 outs as the 4 or 9 of clubs would give us the flush) which equates to about 12% equity. Likely he has more like 2-3 outs with 2 pair or ISSD. With these hands I give him the sense that I am weaker than I am so to increase the likelyhood he will put $ in the pot on the river.


Maybe at this level ISSD will call a turn bet with 2 Q and 3 to the flush on the board but for your own play I HIGHLY SUGGEST YOU FOLD when you have his hand on the turn and river. His Rare hand should have become extinct on the flop. :)
 
Last edited:
A

Aldito

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 28, 2010
Total posts
1,246
Chips
0
oh, I just realized he was referring to the formatting of the HH, which is legit. my bad.

Yeah I meant the format. So many times you come into a HH analysis thread and find that the OP is just a block of text on the page. If people expect their hands to be properly analyzed, then they should have the courtesy of posting them in a legible manner.
 
Top