$4 NLHE 6-max: crazy fish, can we really fold here

What do we do with these massive fish on the flop and turn?

(IPoker) £4.00 GBP NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, October 09, 07:49:51 ET 2014
Table Premium Table 3l (real money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( £2.54 GBP ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 19, 3B: 6, AF: 2.4, hands: 659
Seat 3: Player3 ( £8.87 GBP ) - VPIP: 80, PFR: 13, 3B: 22, AF: 0.9, Hands: 30
Seat 5: Player5 ( £3.25 GBP ) - VPIP: 33, PFR: 4, 3B: 13, AF: 1.0, Hands: 27
Seat 6: Hero ( £7.31 GBP ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 17, 3B: 6, AF: 2.0, Hands: 345
Seat 8: Player8 ( £0.76 GBP ) - VPIP: 52, PFR: 8, 3B: 3, AF: 2.1, Hands: 275
Seat 10: Player10 ( £1.71 GBP ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 19, 3B: 6, AF: 2.4, Hands: 659
Player8 posts small blind [£0.02 GBP].
Player10 posts big blind [£0.04 GBP].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Qc Qh ]
Player1 folds
Player3 calls [£0.04 GBP]
Player5 folds
Hero raises [£0.16 GBP]
Player8 calls [£0.14 GBP]
Player10 calls [£0.12 GBP]
Player3 calls [£0.12 GBP]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, 9d, Td ]
Player8 checks
Player10 checks
Player3 bets [£0.04 GBP] (this min bet is usually a sign of a draw)
Hero raises [£0.53 GBP]
Player8 folds
Player10 raises [£1.55 GBP] out of left field
Player3 calls [£1.51 GBP]
Hero calls ?? oh go on then [£1.02 GBP] they could have anything....
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4c ]
Player3 bets [£5.29 GBP]
Hero. I suppose the swaying factor is that his agg is generally low, Can we fold now? But his min bet on the flop is nearly always a draw.

I mean the short stack jam could have just about any 2. Also the donk bet re-raise is usually strong, but he looks to be like such a bad player that you should just jam the flop. As played, I still GII on the turn. They guy is a whale and could be over valuing a lot of hands or just be drawing / combo draw.

Small side note, if you raise 5x in position prelfop, these guys will still call in general won't they? Why not maximize value against them?

You are in good shape here. Most liker he is holding a suited 7x or a suited Jx and hit the board. Worst scenario for you is he had 2 pairs and induced a reraise with his flop bet.

If player 3 is truly a fish, I'm shoving it in on this flop, their ranges are just huge pre flop and that is a wet board, they'll probably be getting it in real bad here enough for us to go for it. As played I'm still jamming the turn. I might think about it if say the 7 of diamonds peels and maybe fold if villain just open ships it, kind of depends on the table dynamic IMO. But on any blank I'm jamming.

I will fold the flop as XR is too strong here.

I am quite sure you are beat with a straight or 2 pairs here . And as JhonA said you can make it 20 or even 24 cents preflop.

Turn is a fold IMO. When a guy with such a low aggression factor is making a circus on a board that hits his range a lot you can be sure he has 2 pairs or better. I lost a lot of pots at 2NL this way to learn my lesson. He is not playing draws that way. He will check and call.Or bet 4 cents and call a reraise. His minbet on the flop is how dumb players are getting value.

tomnovember said:

I will fold the flop as XR is too strong here.

Click to expand...

I think i agree with tom here. Holding 2 queens and to be up against 4 villains is not an ideal proposition.

On top of that if we get a wet board then we have to be very cautious and almost give up on the hand if there is any aggression from the players. We should not be raising any donk bets here as you just did. It is just the most terrible of spots to do that. Try to play passive and get to showdown if you can which is highly unlikely or just fold. We have not invested much so get out cheap.

suby_rafael said:

I think i agree with tom here. Holding 2 queens and to be up against 4 villains is not an ideal proposition.

On top of that if we get a wet board then we have to be very cautious and almost give up on the hand if there is any aggression from the players. We should not be raising any donk bets here as you just did. It is just the most terrible of spots to do that. Try to play passive and get to showdown if you can which is highly unlikely or just fold. We have not invested much so get out cheap.

Click to expand...

Yep. If only with draws or air, Player10 will never consider raise allin here.

Wouldn't his stat tend to agree he's a passive fish???...

Meaning he plays a lot of hands but may raise only when he's strong?? .. It looks like a fold to me guys, but he was playing a lot more aggressive all the time then it's a jam.

If for some reason we call the f lop, it's always a jam on the turn no matter what comes out.... But folding the flop is the right move...


Might be reading the stats wrong since i'm a bit scratchy.. But i still think fold tho he is a fish

That min raise smells like a trap as well, at worst he may be drawing to the nut flush. + open ender, we only got a pair guys it won't hold up a lot of the time against our opponents range.

Player 8 had Q4 diamonds for the flush draw
Player 3 had 96 os for two pair
Turn was 4c
River 8s
Player 3 won with two pair.

That looks like he flopped 10-9 for two pair. Usually they have it in that spot when you c-bet as strong as 3/4rths the pot and still raise you.

Folding seems so nitty but I don't like that the raise comes from player 10