$4 NLHE 6-max: BvB Flop TPTK on somewhat wet board

S

Sori

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Only 10 hands on villian but has VPIP of 90, PR 30, 3bet 20

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $7.19
CO: $7.84
BTN: $3.33
SB: $3.39
Hero (BB): $4.25

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has A:club: 9:club:

fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.12, SB calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.24, 2 players) 4:diamond: 9:diamond: 8:heart:
SB bets $0.04, Hero raises to $0.25, SB calls $0.21

Turn: ($0.74, 2 players) T:spade:
SB bets $0.04,


I know this isn't a very exciting hand but when looking back at my hands I wasn't really sure if I should just flat call here or raise. And, if we elect to raise, to how much? Do we want to make it small so we can comfortably fold to a 4bet? His bet looks so weak on that turn;
 
The Messiah

The Messiah

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pre/flop seems fine.
Flat turn, were marginally ahead more often than not as he might be flushing, and isnt folding to a raise or hes got 2 pair/weaker pairs etc, we dont want to raise and turn or value hand into a bluff(bloating the pot with sdv v a fish), and obv flat any stupid bet on the river.
Basic line but no need to get fancy and go for thin value at these stakes imo.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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$0.7 on the turn. Min bets are usually terrible hands. Just be prepared for him to donk the riv for pot or something equally retarded.
 
S

Sori

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Yeah I knew as soon as I raised that it was dumb, for some reason I just wanted to take the pot down right there. This is clearly flawed thinking, I guess I should be thinking about getting to showdown cheaply at this point.

However, if we knew he wouldn't fold to a bet if he's on a draw, shouldn't we be raising him here and not let him get a cheap card?

I think at the time I figured he was on some type of draw and wanted to make him pay for it, so I raised to like 55cents or something. He minraises me....now what? Seems like a draw would be a shove, call,or fold- but never a minraise.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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However, if we knew he wouldn't fold to a bet if he's on a draw, shouldn't we be raising him here and not let him get a cheap card?

I think at the time I figured he was on some type of draw and wanted to make him pay for it, so I raised to like 55cents or something. He minraises me....now what? Seems like a draw would be a shove, call,or fold- but never a minraise.
I'd bet villain has a ton of pair+draw combos on the turn as well. But once he minraises, we're totally done here. The "lol trapt U" line from fish banging the minraise button is a bad sign.
 
The Messiah

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Yeah I knew as soon as I raised that it was dumb, for some reason I just wanted to take the pot down right there. This is clearly flawed thinking, I guess I should be thinking about getting to showdown cheaply at this point.

However, if we knew he wouldn't fold to a bet if he's on a draw, shouldn't we be raising him here and not let him get a cheap card?

I think at the time I figured he was on some type of draw and wanted to make him pay for it, so I raised to like 55cents or something. He minraises me....now what? Seems like a draw would be a shove, call,or fold- but never a minraise.

This is why we flat turn and dont raise again as were turning our sdv hand like I said into a bluff and theres just no need.Your bloating the pot unnecessary, if shit cards hit the river its an easy fold and blanks hit its an easy call, make life easy on yourself...
Villains thinking in this hand,"if i min bet turn again, hell raise me again, then il trap him with my 'big hand'...."
 
forsakenone

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I still think bet on turn is best, even tho now we know he raised turn.

So just fold to his raise on turn, but I believe there is still plenty of crap he calls with on turn, and he only raises better, never raises a bluff here, so it is quite simple.
 
loopmeister

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Firstly, I'd raise preflop; since I don't think it affects our ranges much, nor his calling range, and in absolute terms you're usually way ahead pre.

I'm guessing villain is quite aggressive post? If so, as played; I don't see a reason to bet the flop. You both have very wide ranges here, but I expect this villain to fire 90% of the time at this flop.

So, if you bet, he's folding most of his junk and possibly a few hands that you beat like 33,55,KQ, 4x. You'll get a call from hands you beat but don't fold like 66,77,56, 8T, TJ, diamonds. Anything that has you beat is not going anywhere.

But check-calling lets him bluff those hands that would fold to a bet and let's him "value bet" the other hands you're beating.

Now obviously hands that have you crushed won't fold to a bet, but there's no guarantee he raises with a set or 2 pair. He also raises with some of his semi-bluffs, meaning you only give up equity by bet-folding to a raise and a call doesn't always mean you're ahead.

So I think it's somewhat close but check-calling is more +EV than betting. Now your hand is going to look drawy + small PP plus 9J+. So this means that any diamond, 7, T, J,Q,K,A on the turn should scare him.

With the Ts, not much changes except some of his range most to the "beating you" column, and some to the "crushing you" column. If you check, he polarises his range by betting, which doesn't really narrow it down THAT much, right? So I think it's close between check-raising and check-calling. It's villain dependent. If you think he'll fold two pair, 444 or 888 or even 999, then go with the former, otherwise just call. You're still ahead of a considerable part of his range and you'll most likely have pot odds to call.

If he checks (Ts hits your range a lot too), then you've a) pot controlled with a pair of 9s b) kept worse hands in c) minimised your losses when you're crushed and he's slowplaying d) and set up the river for a good bluff. All pretty good things.

If he bets, on the river, depending on the card, you'll have to decide whether to thin value bet, or check and decide.
 
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