$4 NLHE 6-max: Aggressivley Played, Terrible Hands beat Pocket Kings

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ThoughtsOuttaSeason

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Hi. Only my 2nd time posting here. Very new to the game. Tonight I got dealt KK preflop twice and lost big both times. The 1st time, calling an all in bet from and extremely loose player with a VPIP of something like 60. Such is the nature of the all-in I suppose, though really I think I would have been beat even if we played the cards one by one to the river.

In the 2nd case, I was wondering if this min. bet on the river is some sort of "oldest trick in the book" strategy that I hadn't yet come across. In both cases though, I think these are very frustrating losses that are perhaps quite specific to the micros. You try to learn and read the board in relationship to the kind of calls your opponents are making and imagine what these guys might be holding. But how would if EVER occur to you that someone playing so hard from preflop had only 10-7o to start? Or going all in preflop with 44! Any analysis appreciated. Thanks in advance.

partypoker - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players

SB: 136.25 BB (VPIP: 68.00, PFR: 44.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 25)
BB: 70.75 BB (VPIP: 60.87, PFR: 8.70, 3Bet Preflop: 15.38, Hands: 23)
UTG: 130.75 BB (VPIP: 28.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 25)
Hero (CO): 96.25 BB
BTN: 58 BB (VPIP: 81.82, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ks Kd
fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, SB calls 3.5 BB, BB raises to 70.75 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 66.75 BB, fold

Flop : (145.5 BB, 2 players) 6s 5s 5d

Turn : (145.5 BB, 2 players) Ad

River : (145.5 BB, 2 players) 4d

Hero shows Ks Kd (Two Pair, Kings and Fives)
(Pre 81%, Flop 87%, Turn 95%)

BB shows 4h 4s (Full House, Fours full of Fives)
(Pre 19%, Flop 13%, Turn 5%)

BB wins 138.25 BB



partypoker - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players

BB: 88.25 BB (VPIP: 72.22, PFR: 35.19, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 54)
UTG: 93.75 BB (VPIP: 39.20, PFR: 10.80, 3Bet Preflop: 2.33, Hands: 178)
CO: 161 BB (VPIP: 36.36, PFR: 31.82, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 22)
Hero (BTN): 120.75 BB
SB: 117 BB (VPIP: 70.00, PFR: 7.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 40)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Kh Kc
fold, CO raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 5 BB, SB calls 4.5 BB, BB calls 4 BB, CO calls 2 BB

Flop : (20 BB, 4 players) 4s Jd Ts
SB checks, BB bets 9.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 25 BB, fold, BB calls 15.5 BB

Turn : (70 BB, 2 players) 7d
BB bets 33.25 BB, Hero calls 33.25 BB

River : (136.5 BB, 2 players) 3c
BB bets 1 BB, Hero raises to 25 BB, BB calls 24 BB and is all-in

Hero shows Kh Kc (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 84%, Flop 76%, Turn 18%)

BB shows Th 7s (Two Pair, Tens and Sevens)
(Pre 16%, Flop 24%, Turn 82%)

BB wins 177.25 BB
 
J

JKo2theQQ

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This situation with opponents playing terrible hands will happen at any level, but it is incredibly common in micro stakes. I'm not sure where I read it, but the statement "You cannot out-think or outplay someone who is not playing the same game you are" is VERY applicable to micro stakes online poker. Some of the players at micro stakes are good thinking players, but MANY are not. (Proven by the two hands you have displayed).
The first hand was played perfectly. You just got run down by a worse hand and it happens to everyone. There was nothing you could do about it. Let's assume you can see all of your opponents hands before the flop. Would you ever fold to his all in? Of course not, You would be begging and praying that the big blind moves all in with his 44. You got your money in as a huge favorite and that is all you can do.
The second hand is similar in the fact that you just got run down by a worse hand. However, I think some of your raises were a bit small. The preflop reraise should have been bigger. I know that you want value from your KK, but you also have to protect your hand. With such a small 3bet, you are inviting the BB and SB to call because they will be getting decent pot odds to do so. Also, the CO is never going to fold to this 3bet because he will be getting 5 to 1 even if both blinds fold. (he actually got 9 to 1 since both blinds called). The general rule of thumb for reraising is to raise about 3 times the original raise. (so about 9bb or 10bb in this spot). Your goal should be to play against a maximum of 2 opponents because hands like KK and AA are much less profitable in large multi-way pots. Now, if you had reraised to 10bb the BB would be less like to play his T7o. The flop raise was better, but still a bit on the small side. Personally, with such a draw heavy flop I like to make a large raise to discourage my opponents from chasing their draws. Once the BB leads and the CO folds, I would put in a very large raise (perhaps even all in). At this point, you were a 3 to 1 favorite to win the hand. I would LOVE to get it all in here. You will get run down sometimes.......it happens...but over time it will fall in your favor. Good Luck at the tables!!
 
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ThoughtsOuttaSeason

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Ah, very good points. Very helpful, thanks....
 
T

tomnovember

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#1: That's poker
#2: You can fold the turn
 
S

SnowedIn

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#1 played fine obviously, like tom says thats poker
#2 played v.poorly pre. Why are you min raising. If the BB assumes the CO will call, then he's getting 5:1 on the call. This is no the kind of hand you want to play multiway. So should've raised to 8+BB
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

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Hand 1 as said, yep, nothing you could/should have done different.

Hand 2: Also as said, 3 bet pre way too small.
"Fold the turn" was suggested. I do not agree. Looking at play up till then, your call was fine. OTR, however, you should have just called.He is probably folding worse hands and calling with better. In this case his small amount of chips behind are irrelevant.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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I had kk multiway and someone pot sized bet with board 98j

I folded lol sometimes kk sucks
 
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