Originally Posted by baudib1
I agree with most of your last post except this. I think betting 1 BB on the flop is going to get called really wide and make a lot of people spazz-raise with a huge range whereas 4-5 BBs will make them fold a ton.
As for two-way bets, it mostly happens on the river when one player's range is mostly bluffcatchers.
anyway, in this example, betting the flop on this hand is going to be so much better than any other option even if opponents are folding worse most of the time. At 4NL I think we can get called by quite a few worse hands.
I agree that it is elastic when we bet 1 or 2 bb or potsized and above but fish apart from that I dont think its elastic at all.
The main reason I firstly suggested betting small was I posed the question why bet. The first response was, dead money and thin value.
Well thin value dosent exist on the flop, and given a bet of more than a couple of bbs to just under pot most players flop calling range is inelastic, if collection of dead money is the goal then we want to make the smallest possible bet within that range.
Then someone said no, its a value bet. OK fine I can see players calling the flop bet with worse, so therefore we now want to bet as big as possible within that range of betsizes as we want to be called and we believe that he calls with more worse hands than better.
Then we have spazz factor, but TBH why do you need to bet to cause spazz? The guy who spazzes out to a 1bb bet will likely spazz out to a check.
I think the reason people might make a 1bb bet is to get called wide and to get to SD cheaply. Which is the same reason people look at the strength of their hand and bet in accordance with that (big hand big bet, small hand, smaller bet). What that is doing is minimizing losses when you are wrong and minimizing profits when you are right. Once you understand that value is value and that in order to make a value bet you must beat 50% of his calling range then what you see is that betsize is irrelevent, by betting small you lower your winrate and by betting bigger you increase it. The trick is figuring out when you are value betting and being able to do it with a wider and wider range of hands.