Originally Posted by Omahahahahahahahahhahahah
first, I wouldn't open raise for 5x the bb. I open for $10 in 1/3 games and I think you will find this is significantly more effective than over betting pre, especially if you are *gasp* doing so on the basis of your hand strength. It is important to not very your bets based on your hand strength, but bet more based on pot size and board texture as well as your hypothesis as to opponents holding (your own cards matter too).
C-betting this flop 5 way was a little optimistic. On the river, I mean you might as well call now that you are there and getting the price. Calling getting 6:1 for $25 more is tempting but I'd probably fold here again. I don't like extreme long shot wagers (10:1 against my straight coming in) and this draw is less valuable because when it completes it puts a 1 card straight on the board.
On the turn it is only 4.5:1 or so, so you should only call really if you think he is bluffing, in which case obviously river is a snap. But it's a little unlikely that this guy raised the flop 5 way as a bluff and then barreled off. u lose.
$10 open??? At a $1/$3 live game??? It would be a family pot probably. How is hero supposed to form a "hypothesis" on villains' hands, when he is opening OOP with no information?
How much have you played live?
$10 is a joke on a live table like this. Live games play way different than online (at least everywhere I've ever played live). Raises are usually 5x+, depending on dynamics. I have people call 10x+ opens with rags all the time vs me, and I'm a nit. I am happy my opponents like lighting money on fire preflop. Most aren't paying attention to open sizes, bet sizes, etc. They are only focused on their hand. Level zero thinkers.
What OP should be doing (IMVHO), is paying attention to the game dynamics. He should be opening enough to get 1 or 2 callers (with some exceptions). Some tables are so whacky, there is no raise size big enough. Those tables are rare, but they are tough to play on. In that spot, you could try set mining, seeing flop as cheap as possible.
I hate the c-bet into four villains here. Optimistic is one way of putting it. Hate this c-bet. I would just c/f probably, depending on the action that ensues. We are bloating the pot. We don't build pots with mediocre hands. We try and keep them small. Small hand, small pot, big hand, big pot.
People don't bluff too often at low stakes live games. If you pay attention, you can spot the people who are capable (most are not).
Open bigger preflop. Do not c-bet in a 5w flop like this. Do not call raise with a gutter. If you really think you have the best hand, just ram a raise down his throat, and end it.
And c-bet is $25 into $75ish. The sizing alone could make someone raise you, because they smell weakness.
Raise bigger preflop, $20+, or setmine. Do not bet a board like this unless 3 way flop max (villain dependant 3way. We don't have to cbet). HU, betting here is fine OTF. Bet sizing should probably be 1/2~3/4 pot (if 3way or HU). But once again, dynamics play a role.
10-10 doesn't play very well at a full table (9 or 10 players) out of position. We really have no clue where we are in this hand.
As played, fold flop. Just cut your losses, and give up. We can't control the pot, and we have a mediocre hand. It is tough to even know where we are in the hand. Fold turn. Fold river. Fold fold fold. We aren't going to be good here often. You are just hanging on too long postflop with a hand that is weak. I know it's 10-10, blah blah. It's not a strong hand with that board texture. And the straight isn't even going to get paid off if we hit. We could be drawing to chop, and even beat by Q-10 anyway.
I mean, what do you think our hand looks like to villain? Hero looks weak. Villain probably thinks hero has AK or something.
Just fold. Money saved is money earned.