2pl Omaha

Im trying to learn how to play this game, so I'll have quite a few questions and HA I want to go over. I have never read an omaha book or strategy guide and am really trying to learn based on trial and error and any tips given to me on here. Forgive me if these are really basic and completely obvious decisions.

pokerstars Game #19952489749: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/08/27 - 22:33:46 (ET)
Table 'Aenna' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: thedominater ($2.84 in chips)
Seat 2: dbest138 ($0.69 in chips)
Seat 3: HIGHLYFADED ($2.91 in chips)
Seat 5: TRM_SHRiMP ($2.35 in chips)
Seat 6: denalitastic ($1.04 in chips)
HIGHLYFADED: posts small blind $0.01
TRM_SHRiMP: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TRM_SHRiMP [4d 6h 8h 9s]
denalitastic: calls $0.02
thedominater: folds
dbest138: calls $0.02
HIGHLYFADED: calls $0.01
TRM_SHRiMP: checks
*** FLOP *** [8c 6s Qs]
HIGHLYFADED: checks
TRM_SHRiMP: bets $0.08
...Is this ok to bet out here? There are a lot of draws to come on the turn that I dont want to see.
denalitastic has timed out
denalitastic: folds
denalitastic is sitting out
dbest138: calls $0.08
HIGHLYFADED: calls $0.08
*** TURN *** [8c 6s Qs] [9c]
HIGHLYFADED: checks
denalitastic has returned
TRM_SHRiMP:???

PokerStars Game #19952692546: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/08/27 - 22:42:09 (ET)
Table 'Aenna' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: thedominater ($2.69 in chips)
Seat 2: dbest138 ($1.32 in chips)
Seat 3: HIGHLYFADED ($3.15 in chips)
Seat 4: edmonron ($2.96 in chips)
Seat 5: TRM_SHRiMP ($1.78 in chips)
Seat 6: denalitastic ($0.88 in chips)
edmonron: posts small blind $0.01
TRM_SHRiMP: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TRM_SHRiMP [8h Qc Ts Qh]
denalitastic: calls $0.02
thedominater: calls $0.02
dbest138: folds
HIGHLYFADED: calls $0.02
edmonron: calls $0.01
TRM_SHRiMP: checks
...I decided to check here and see a cheap flop. Im not quite sure if this is a hand I want to be raising in this position?
*** FLOP *** [3s 9h Td]
edmonron: checks
TRM_SHRiMP: bets $0.08
...I dont know if this bet is a good idea. I do have an over pair to the board and there is a straight draw, but at the same time this could've hit anyone strong.
denalitastic has timed out
denalitastic: folds
denalitastic is sitting out
thedominater: folds
HIGHLYFADED: raises $0.26 to $0.34
edmonron: folds
TRM_SHRiMP: ???
...Im thinking this is an easy fold since my opponent can easily have 2 pair, set, or possibly top pair + draw.

Yeah just give up on the first one. You may have the best hand, but can so easily be drawing to 6 dirty outs and that's no fun.

Second hand is a pretty clear fold too, you have no strong draws and are almost always beat.

Basically wait for the nuts or a draw to them, then commit

Good rule of thumb for PLO: have the nuts or be drawing to the nuts. hands like bottom two pair on a draw heavy board are traps/losers.

Play hands that have 4 cards that can work together. More permutations of usable cards means more possible hands for you.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Another question because I am not sure if I played this right...

PokerStars Game #19957132060: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/08/28 - 02:43:13 (ET)
Table 'Aisakos' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: rubin450 ($2.70 in chips)
Seat 2: pokerman9513 ($2.66 in chips)
Seat 3: Imabigbadboy ($1.87 in chips)
Seat 4: TRM_SHRiMP ($2.97 in chips)
Seat 5: CharlotteS ($2.53 in chips)
rubin450: posts small blind $0.01
pokerman9513: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TRM_SHRiMP [5s As Ac Qh]
Imabigbadboy: folds
TRM_SHRiMP: raises $0.05 to $0.07
CharlotteS: calls $0.07
rubin450: raises $0.07 to $0.14
pokerman9513: calls $0.12
TRM_SHRiMP: raises $0.26 to $0.40
CharlotteS: calls $0.33
rubin450: raises $1.34 to $1.74
Alohavibe joins the table at seat #6
pokerman9513: folds
TRM_SHRiMP: raises $1.23 to $2.97 and is all-in
CharlotteS: calls $2.13 and is all-in
rubin450: calls $0.96 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.27) returned to TRM_SHRiMP
*** FLOP *** [9d 9h Kh]
*** TURN *** [9d 9h Kh] [Th]
*** RIVER *** [9d 9h Kh Th] [6d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
rubin450: shows [Ks Ad 6c Kd] (a full house, Kings full of Nines)
TRM_SHRiMP: mucks hand
rubin450 collected $0.29 from side pot
TRM_SHRiMP said, "vnh"
CharlotteS: mucks hand
rubin450 collected $7.38 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.07 Main pot $7.38. Side pot $0.29. | Rake $0.40
Board [9d 9h Kh Th 6d]
Seat 1: rubin450 (small blind) showed [Ks Ad 6c Kd] and won ($7.67) with a full house, Kings full of Nines
Seat 2: pokerman9513 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Imabigbadboy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: TRM_SHRiMP mucked [5s As Ac Qh]
Seat 5: CharlotteS (button) mucked [8c Js Jd Td]

Did i overplay my hand?

philthy said:

Did i overplay my hand?

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You tell me:

Hand - Equity
As 5s Ac Qh - 0.437
Ks 6c Ad Kd - 0.250
Js 8c Jd Td - 0.313

Get all in with aces preflop. Period. But in early position, with fairly weak aces like yours, I like to limp-3-bet them. You trap a ton of dead money in the pot.

First hand is a hand you don't want to play at all. Then the flop didn't go your way. Too many draws. Check, fold here.

Second hand, you only have pair of Qs. Fold here.

Third hand, I would have capped it at second or third round of betting. You have pair of Aces. Good hand but not super strong. You needed to see the flop to commit the rest.

By the way, this might help. https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/bbb-s-basic-rules-plo-125082/

This is your brain...

bubbasbestbabe said:

You needed to see the flop to commit the rest.

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This is your brain on drugs...

Why would you want to see a flop while you're holding a hand that has most of its value preflop? Riddle me that if you would.

Because this is Omaha not Hold Em. And just a pair of Aces alone does not hold the most value PF. PF you're playing 4 cards not just 2. As I said pair of Aces is a good starting hand. Most value? I would rather have something better to go with the aces. Another pair, double suited connectors, those make the hand more appealing to go all in on. And if you look at the river you can see theorectically other combos that he could have had agaist Philthy's pair of aces. So going all in with just a pair of aces preflop?, Hold Em yes, Omaha no.

I are the suck at omaha. LOL.

Thanks, BBB.

bubbasbestbabe said:

And just a pair of Aces alone does not hold the most value PF.

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WRONG! A pair of aces is a favorite over any other hand that doesn't contain a pair of aces.

Evidence: As Ac 9h 6d vs. ________

vs. 9d 8d 9h 8h, aces are a 52% favorite
vs. 9d 8h 7d 6h, aces are a 51% favorite
vs. Kh Qd Jh Td, aces are a 53% favorite

And those hands are ridiculously suited & co-ordinated, and they're up against a ragged, rainbow pair of aces. When you start to improve upon the aces, it gets ridiculously weighted in our favor.

Think up any combination you can, and then pit them against a pair of aces and plug it into an omaha odds calculator found here. Let me know when you find a combination that aces are behind, because I'm interested.

The only thing that beats aces, are other aces. And this is unlikely, since we hold 2 aces. And even then, the outcome is most likely a tie. This is micro limits, if your opponents want to get all in preflop, and you hold aces, then by god, you get all in preflop. This is not debatable.

By the way, this might help. https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/bbb-s-b...es-plo-125082/

Click to expand...

You should probably not write guides for games that you're horrible at.

bubbasbestbabe said:

Because this is Omaha not Hold Em. And just a pair of Aces alone does not hold the most value PF. PF you're playing 4 cards not just 2. As I said pair of Aces is a good starting hand. Most value? I would rather have something better to go with the aces. Another pair, double suited connectors, those make the hand more appealing to go all in on. And if you look at the river you can see theorectically other combos that he could have had agaist Philthy's pair of aces. So going all in with just a pair of aces preflop?, Hold Em yes, Omaha no.

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You have no idea what you're talking about.

PokerStars Game #19981776617: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/08/29 - 01:56:03 (ET)
Table 'Marconia' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: barkur69 ($3.06 in chips)
Seat 2: nath01 ($3.18 in chips)
Seat 3: Bspot5 ($1.76 in chips)
Seat 4: TRM_SHRiMP ($2.33 in chips)
Seat 5: storgade ($2.92 in chips)
Seat 6: Monkeyxpants ($3.51 in chips)
barkur69: posts small blind $0.01
nath01: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TRM_SHRiMP [Ah Ac Qh 9d]
Bspot5: calls $0.02
TRM_SHRiMP: raises $0.07 to $0.09
storgade: calls $0.09
Monkeyxpants: calls $0.09
barkur69: folds
nath01: folds
Bspot5: folds
*** FLOP *** [6d 7h 4c]
TRM_SHRiMP: ???
...Do I want to bet out here and, if so, how much?

PokerStars Game #19982170349: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/08/29 - 02:30:42 (ET)
Table 'Marconia' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: barkur69 ($2.34 in chips)
Seat 2: nath01 ($3.04 in chips)
Seat 3: Bspot5 ($3.09 in chips)
Seat 4: TRM_SHRiMP ($2.73 in chips)
Seat 5: rainbow_J ($4.72 in chips)
Seat 6: Monkeyxpants ($5.59 in chips)
Monkeyxpants: posts small blind $0.01
barkur69: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TRM_SHRiMP [Ah 5h 2c 8h]
nath01: folds
Bspot5: calls $0.02
TRM_SHRiMP: calls $0.02
rainbow_J: calls $0.02
Monkeyxpants: calls $0.01
barkur69: checks
*** FLOP *** [2d Js Ac]
Monkeyxpants: checks
barkur69: checks
Bspot5: bets $0.02
TRM_SHRiMP: raises $0.04 to $0.06
...Good raise here with 2 pair? Probably should just called to see a cheap turn?
rainbow_J: folds
Monkeyxpants: folds
barkur69: calls $0.06
Bspot5: calls $0.04
*** TURN *** [2d Js Ac] [Qs]
barkur69: checks
Bspot5: checks
TRM_SHRiMP: checks
...Didn't bet here because of the straight possibilities.
*** RIVER *** [2d Js Ac Qs] [2s]
barkur69: checks
Bspot5: bets $0.14
TRM_SHRiMP: ???
...Im probably not folding this. Raise or just call?

c9h13no3 said:

You should probably not write guides for games that you're horrible at.

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grift said:

You have no idea what you're talking about.

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Tell you two genius's what, I'll set up a game for us and we'll see who doesn't know how to play the game. So far playing I'm up over $1000 playing a game I don't know how to play. So what do you say boys?

bubbasbestbabe said:

Tell you two genius's what, I'll set up a game for us and we'll see who doesn't know how to play the game. So far playing I'm up over $1000 playing a game I don't know how to play. So what do you say boys?

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My ego is bigger than your ego, rawr rawr rawr.

Answer *my* question. Name a hand that aces are behind preflop.

if i see one more person overplaying their AAxx KKxx QQxx or something similar preflop, im going to shove a fire poker up their ass.

sorry, that's something that's been bothering me for awhile.

seriously, a raise preflop in omaha (h/l or hi) should really be no bigger than 2.5xbb as a general rule of thumb (kind of like the 3xbb preflop raise rule of thumb in holdem). you want to push the trash/marginal hands out, but you don't want to risk a lot of your chips preflop on an unmade hand. omaha is a post-flop game, treat it as such.

Ive brought this to the thread:



So people can accuratley measure their e-penises. Enjoy.

philthy said:

Dealt to TRM_SHRiMP [Ah Ac Qh 9d]
Bspot5: calls $0.02
TRM_SHRiMP: raises $0.07 to $0.09
storgade: calls $0.09
Monkeyxpants: calls $0.09
barkur69: folds
nath01: folds
Bspot5: folds
*** FLOP *** [6d 7h 4c]
TRM_SHRiMP: ???
...Do I want to bet out here and, if so, how much?

Click to expand...

I'm generally not a fan of raising aces in EP, especially when they're not all that strong. Maybe if the 9 was a J, a raise would be worth it. But I think limp/3-betting is a more effective way of getting heads up.

Don't lead out. You whiffed the flop, which is highly co-ordinated. You should be c-betting far fewer flops in omaha than you do in hold'em.

Dealt to TRM_SHRiMP [Ah 5h 2c 8h]
nath01: folds
Bspot5: calls $0.02
TRM_SHRiMP: calls $0.02
rainbow_J: calls $0.02
Monkeyxpants: calls $0.01
barkur69: checks
*** FLOP *** [2d Js Ac]
Monkeyxpants: checks
barkur69: checks
Bspot5: bets $0.02
TRM_SHRiMP: raises $0.04 to $0.06
...Good raise here with 2 pair? Probably should just called to see a cheap turn?
rainbow_J: folds
Monkeyxpants: folds
barkur69: calls $0.06
Bspot5: calls $0.04
*** TURN *** [2d Js Ac] Q♠
barkur69: checks
Bspot5: checks
TRM_SHRiMP: checks
...Didn't bet here because of the straight possibilities.
*** RIVER *** [2d Js Ac Qs] 2♠
barkur69: checks
Bspot5: bets $0.14
TRM_SHRiMP: ???
...Im probably not folding this. Raise or just call?

Click to expand...

Your hand preflop is junk. Fold. This isn't Omaha Hi/Lo split.

KMC1828 said:

you want to push the trash/marginal hands out

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More genius advice....

Generally in Omaha, you want to raise to build the pot with hands that hit well postflop. Additionally, raising will give you initiative if the pot is heads up. Pushing out trash hands that will pay us when we hit our dominating flush/straight/full house/whatever doesn't sound overly smart to me.

Why are you guys so opposed to getting all in preflop as a favorite. That's what I wanna know. This "omaha is a postflop game" crap is just BS rhetoric.

This is CASH GAME. All that matters is equity. If I can get all in preflop with a large equity edge, I am going to do it!

Riddle me this: Why is getting all in preflop as a favorite a bad thing?

The only way you can convince me that getting all in preflop with aces is bad, is if you can somehow convince me that we're not getting all in with a significant equity edge against these player's range.

KMC1828 said:

if i see one more person overplaying their AAxx KKxx QQxx or something similar preflop, im going to shove a fire poker up their ass.

sorry, that's something that's been bothering me for awhile.

seriously, a raise preflop in omaha (h/l or hi) should really be no bigger than 2.5xbb as a general rule of thumb (kind of like the 3xbb preflop raise rule of thumb in holdem). you want to push the trash/marginal hands out, but you don't want to risk a lot of your chips preflop on an unmade hand. omaha is a post-flop game, treat it as such.

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agreed no pre flop bet is respected tht much in omaha post flop play counts ev time

Playing 2$ plo you're going to have people stacking off preflop constantly. Not taking advantage of this with aces is a mistake. Sorry.

Taking good play at higher stake levels and applying it to micro stakes omaha doesn't make any sense. You don't play the same game at 10$ NL that you play at 100$ NL. Same goes here.

And please try to like, actually have a discussion without bringing up "I'm up x$ amount" or "i play the 1k plo game at stars" or whatever other e-penis shit you want to bring in.

That doesn't mean 3 bet every single time someone raises and you have any aces. It means flat call with your shitty aces and try and flop top set. And then when someone 3bets behind you (happens more often than you guys seem to think in microstakes), you push yer chips in.

bubbasbestbabe said:

Tell you two genius's what, I'll set up a game for us and we'll see who doesn't know how to play the game. So far playing I'm up over $1000 playing a game I don't know how to play. So what do you say boys?

Click to expand...

I didn't say you don't know how to play. I said you don't know what you're talking about with regards to pushing aces preflop.

If you offer me 60%+ equity for my whole stack I'll take it every time. It's the same thing you're doing with combo draws.

c9h13no3 said:

More genius advice....

Generally in Omaha, you want to raise to build the pot with hands that hit well postflop. Additionally, raising will give you initiative if the pot is heads up. Pushing out trash hands that will pay us when we hit our dominating flush/straight/full house/whatever doesn't sound overly smart to me.

Why are you guys so opposed to getting all in preflop as a favorite. That's what I wanna know. This "omaha is a postflop game" crap is just BS rhetoric.

This is CASH GAME. All that matters is equity. If I can get all in preflop with a large equity edge, I am going to do it!

Riddle me this: Why is getting all in preflop as a favorite a bad thing?

The only way you can convince me that getting all in preflop with aces is bad, is if you can somehow convince me that we're not getting all in with a significant equity edge against these player's range.

Click to expand...

I am in complete agreement w/ BBB on this subject.

It makes no sense to go all in preflop in a post flop game. I think that should go without saying. Especially in cash games. In tournaments when you're low, of course you want to get it all in preflop with the best preflop hand, but when you're in a cash game (and should be deepstacked if you're in a cash game), going all in preflop makes almost no sense. Preflop raises, especially in the limits we're talking about here (2pl), will get next to no respect.

It isn't bs rhetoric because this isn't holdem and you need to quit treating it as such. You push hard with AA27 and get called by 89TJ. Flop comes JQK or 89K. You're drawing to very few outs and you've lost a good amount of chips because you were playing like it was hold'em. 1 pair will not win you the pot in 95% of omaha hands at a full table. That's why it doesn't make sense to push it so hard and get it in with "the favorite". The favorite preflop generally isn't going to be the favorite post flop.

Making a preflop raise isn't a bad idea, in fact I encourage it, but don't go pushing hard with a big pair because it's senseless. You want to make a raise to build the pot like you said, and push away potential marginal/trash hands that would be limping (and catching 2 random pairs or something that beats our big pair, which happens frequently -- ie. 823T -- you're going to see a lot of people play any 4 cards at 2pl).

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Of course you're overplaying the big pair, but as long as 70-80% of your stack is in preflop, who cares? Some moron way overplays his (much worse) hand, and then you take his money. I happened to be 60% here because he had one of the best hands against aces. This isn't a rare occurrence, this happens quite frequently at 10 plo. I assume at 2 plo it would happen that much more frequently.

Poker Hand History Converter Tool -> Hand #4289

KMC1828 said:

It isn't bs rhetoric because this isn't holdem and you need to quit treating it as such. You push hard with AA27 and get called by 89TJ.

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You don't seem to understand that there is no post flop play in a lot of these situations. It's not going bet, 3bet, call, then flop with ~25 bb's in the pot. It's going you limp, next raises, next reraises, 2 callers, then you pot for 80 bb's with your aces. I think you underestimate the craziness that is micro stakes plo. Hell if you actually read the hand he posted you'd see a perfect example of this.

KMC1828 said:

It makes no sense to go all in preflop in a post flop game.

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This is BS rhetoric.

grift said:

You don't seem to understand that there is no post flop play in a lot of these situations. It's not going bet, 3bet, call, then flop with ~25 bb's in the pot. It's going you limp, next raises, next reraises, 2 callers, then you pot for 80 bb's with your aces. I think you underestimate the craziness that is micro stakes plo. Hell if you actually read the hand he posted you'd see a perfect example of this.

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Eh, you cant expect too much at 2pl. You'd be better off buying a lotto ticket. People aren't making sensible plays at all they're just like "any 4 cards can win. let's do it." I'm talking about omaha play as a whole and why just pushing with AAxx is a senseless move. The play in omaha tournaments w/ low buy-ins isn't that horrible, by the way, but obviously in cash games its pretty awful, as we've seen from some of the HHs philthy has posted.

The simple fact is this: If you push hard with "dry aces" -- AAxx w/ nothing to compliment the aces -- then you're going to get burned almost every time. It isn't bullshit rhetoric when it's true. Having a good hand that happens to have aces in it is a different story all together. If you have AATK w/ one or 2 suits w/ the A high suit, and you're not raising, then you're out of your mind. It's the quality of the WHOLE HAND, not just 2 of the cards (half of the hand). That's what you and c9 don't seem to understand.

KMC1828 said:

It's the quality of the WHOLE HAND, not just 2 of the cards (half of the hand).

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Show me a hand that dry aces are behind that doesn't have aces in them.

Eh, you cant expect too much at 2pl. You'd be better off buying a lotto ticket.

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My lotto ticket is called "shoving aces preflop", except that with this lotto ticket you're a favorite to win.

Seriously. I don't care what kind of rhetoric you guys have. Show me some numbers. Why is shoving dry aces bad? What part of villain's range has us beat? Why do you keep writing word after word but don't show me any proof that what you're saying is correct.

You people are ridiculous. You think about poker in terms of cliches & rhetoric that you read somewhere (probably here). But poker, especially cash games, are all about EV. And if the expected value of an outcome is positive, you bloody well do it. No matter how much rhetoric there is against it.

So show me that shoving dry aces preflop is -$EV.

Otherwise, all your talk is just simply that.