2nl Tough Position JJ

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scragbag

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Did I play this hand badly? I realise my turn bet was probably FAR too weak! Would you have just checked the turn thinking villain has caught the Q or is he calling with the T, the call on the flop was a fast call so villian may possibly of caught the OE SD, villain is 58/4/2 over 24 hands. But the villains bet on the river?!?!!!!??

How could I have played this differently

Stacks:

* UTG+1 with $3.09
* MP1 with $4.97
* MP2 with $5.27
* CO with $5.00
* BTN with $3.82
* SB with $3.00
* BB with $7.21
* UTG with $9.41

hand.pl


hand.pl

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: pokerstars
* * Dealt to MP1:J♣ J♥
* * Sklansky group 1
Preflop:
* * 2 players fold.
* * Hero raises $0.08 to $0.10
* * MP2 calls [$0.10]
* * 4 players folded.
* * Total folds this street: 6
* * Potsize: $0.25
Flop:
* * 10♠ 7♥ Q♣
* * Hero bets [$0.17]
* * 4 players fold.
* * MP2 calls [$0.17]
* * Potsize: $0.59
Turn:
* * Q♠
* * Hero bets [$0.35]
* * MP2 calls [$0.35]
* * Potsize: $1.29
River:
* * 4♠
* * Hero: checks
* * MP2 bets [$2.06]
* * 1 players fold.
* * Uncalled bet ($2.06) returned to MP2
* * MP2 collected $1.24 from pot
* * Total folds this street: 1

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jmasterrich

jmasterrich

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That woulda been a call for me on the river..58 villains spells spewtard, and just the way he played it really just has bluff written all over it. its possible I might have been taking the line of check/calling the turn and probably the river to. But honestly I dont think this player would be slowplaying queens (I think he woulda rasied the flop with a queen) here I think worst case scenario you ran into a backdoor flushdraw.
 
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Dr_Dick

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How could you have played differently? Don't bet the turn.

I think you read your opponent as loose so you figure there is no way he could have hit the flop. But, loose players have just as good a chance of hitting the flop as you do.

Your overplaying JJ out of position by betting the turn. You raise preflop good, you make a good postflop bet, but your opponent is not going away. Maintaining aggression at that point is not a good play. You say you wanted to bet more, I say don't bet the turn, don't fall in love with JJ like it is unbeatable.

Here is my question...why go to war with this hand? Why pick this hand to make a stand against an opponent that has called your preflop raise, called your continuation bet, you are out of position, and the flop to turn just gets worse with another Q hitting? Why?
 
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scragbag

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Because its 2nl and they will play almost ANYTHING trying to be smart etc and they will often called with ONE overcard..bottom pair, mid pair, ANYTHING! Are you not giving villiain credit for holding J9? If so, why not? Because at 2nl the majority have no concept of pot odds
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Everything looks good to me. I'd play it the same.
 
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Dr_Dick

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I would not give villain credit for holding J9 because you hold JJ. When I hold AK I don't give my opponents credit for holding AA or KK. Does this mean they never have it? Of course not, but I'm not going to play poker giving my opponents huge ranges of hands up to and including J9 in this situation.

I'm not saying you played it bad, but you are in here asking if you should have played it different and even specifically asking would you check the turn thinking the villain caught a Q. I'm advocating a check. IMO there are many more reasons to check the turn than to get yourself deeper into a potentially bad situation.

I don't understand why you would fall in love with JJ and potentially stack off here? If players are as bad as you say, then fold and take their money when you actually have a hand that you don't have to come into a forum and ask if the play was correct.
 
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toybits

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i think you should have bet on the river, to at least prevent bluffs. if he had a T, he still might have called at that point. If he raises big at the river that's when you know you're beat
 
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scragbag

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I'm clearly not over valuing JJ here, It's just the same as having KK on the same draw board, I'd be asking exactly the same questions, like toybits said, maybe a blocker bet on the river would have been fine an prevented the overbet if it is a clear bluff. I'm just a bit flumoxed as to why you're not giving JJ any real value, I know it's not a MONSTER , christ when I get it a voice in my head says " FFS" because I know i'm going to be getting in a tricky spot. The ONLY reason I didn't wanna check this is on the turn is because of giving up the pot. If the villain is firing out with a T then i'm gonna have to fold, So I figured firing out on the turn will get the villain to fold weaker and well...Ultimately call with better.
 
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Dr_Dick

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Okay, I will be polite and try my best to be objective.

You are the only one that was in the hand. You are the only one that was in the moment and has a good grasp of the opponent, the situation, etc. If you are so clear on the fact you are not over valuing JJ then why are you posting in the first place asking if you should check the turn?

When you post it is because you have a legitimate question. You are posting because you don't know if you should have checked the turn. If the ONLY reason you didn't wanna check on the turn is because of giving up the pot then don't ask the question should you have checked the turn. What response did you expect from the forum group.."Great play, I would not give up the pot so your .35 was genius." Or did you expect the response, "You should have bet .50 so as not to give up the pot"? Your own statement says you think you were weak betting the turn and you question whether you should have bet the turn. Now you want to reverse the situation and come after me as if that was not a legitimate option in the first place. Then why the hell ask the question should you have checked the turn?

I think the way you ask a forum question and the way you play poker go hand in hand. If you have not thought through your question and you ask a question you already have made up your mind you have an answer to, then you probably don't think through the hands very well when your in the moment. You should have never typed, "Would you have just checked..." because apparently that is not an option to you. Instead you want to come into a forum, ask the question, and then someone says you should have checked you go after them as if there logic is unquestionably incorrect.

So think about it...YES!!! You should have checked because at this point in your poker career you are not good enough to really understand what is going on, even to the point of formulating a question to which you legitimately would like an honest response.

And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I'm some poker genius either. All I'm saying is if you post a question, don't already have your mind made up as to what the answer might be. If that is the case then you are most likely carrying that with you to the table and that in my opinion is a leak.
 
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scragbag

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I'm not for one second saying you're wrong in saying check the turn. Why the hell do you think I posted in a forum to ask for opinions, opinions are each to their own and generally will be argued against. In my reply I stated WHY I made my bet on the turn. Also, please don't give me that rubbish about not legimately wanting an honest response, If I couldn't handle that I wouldn't post in forums for fear in being wrong. I think you're clearly mistaking me for some kind of idiot with your responses. Maybe I am, but I'm an idiot willing to learn, that's why I'm playing at the bottom. That's why I'm posting in forums, and frankly if you're responses can not be constructive i'd appreciate if you didn't give you're opinions at all.
Psychology? Maybe you should drop that and evaluate the hand as opposed to evaluating the OP.

So...what was the villains bets about on the river?
 
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Dr_Dick

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There is no way to tell why the villain bets so strong on the river. Some thoughts would be your check shows weakness so villain decides to steal the pot. Or villain has a legitimate hand and instead of value betting wants to fake weakness via the overbet and give you the opportunity to go over the top.

As with other posters I don't see a call here being a huge mistake. Personally I would elect to fold. I'm going to preserve my stack and wait for a better hand to get my money in the middle. You now know villain will overbet, so waiting for a better situation would not be a big deal to me.
 
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thetrimguy

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depending on exactly how the hand played out it seems to me that with the raise preflop he was just looking for you to show weakness i think that he was sitting on a low PP or AJ or A10 or something like that because when you checked the river he was probably thinking the flush scared you and the only way he could win would be to bet and bet big i think i would have definitely called
 
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