$25NL, QQ OOP raised on the turn

slycbnew

slycbnew

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Villain is running 20/6 through 80 hands, seems like a good thinking player. Two orbits ago he doubled me up when I flopped a set and he hit TP2K (he called my pre-flop raise exactly as below).

I haven't been playing much in ring games, just starting to get back into it after several months of tourneys...

Stacks:
* UTG with $35.50
* MP1 with $15.85
* HERO with $51.20
* CO with $5.00
* BTN with $27.60
* SB with $7.75
* BB with $25.00


Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
Site: pokerstars
* * Dealt to MP2:Q♠ Q♦
* * Sklansky group 1
Preflop:
* * 2 players fold.
* * Hero raises $0.50 to $0.75
* * 1 players fold.
* * BTN calls [$0.75]
* * 2 players folded.
* * Total folds this street: 5
* * Potsize: $1.85
Flop:
* * 3♣ 8♣ 10♦
* * Hero bets [$1.10]
* * 2 players fold.
* * BTN calls [$1.10]
* * Potsize: $4.05
Turn:
* * 9♦
* * Hero bets [$3]
* * BTN raises $4.50 to $7.50

How do we read this raise, and what's our next action?
 
The Shrog

The Shrog

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First, I'd raise more PF. My standard raise at 10NL is 4x, but maybe this differs at this level. This looks like a combo draw, could be the Jc10c, but are 88 and 1010 out of the question? Normally, a good player would raise those hands on the flop, but his raise on the turn looks like he wants to keep you in the hand. I really can't think of any hands that you beat that take this line...I think JJ 3bets PF, and if not, at least pops you on the flop. A10 also should raise flop...anyway, against this opponent, I could see an argument for a fold.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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Your bet sizes are a bit low, both preflop and on flop. Does that have a purpose?

On turn we can't be overly concerned about a made straight as it would mean villain peeled flop with a gutshot which is unlikely unless he had clubs. Also, we have two queens which removes a lot of QJ combos. Of course, we are beat by 2 pairs and sets and a lot of those play exactly like this. On the other hand, we are significantly ahead of a lot of draws like flush draws, pair+oesd.

I think it relies a lot on how aggressive villain is postflop. If he's aggressive enough to raise his draws in this spot, you're doing quite well against his range. If he's somewhat passive, you're likely crushed.
 
slycbnew

slycbnew

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He was passive, and yes I was crushed... He'd hung on to 98s and caught two pair on the turn. Thanks for putting his action in that light, it's really helpful, I should be able to pick up on that in the future. I keep paying off the implied odds... :eek:

I'm finding that I have to raise preflop to 4xBB +1BB for limpers in cash games, where in tourneys 3xBB seems to work just fine for most of the tourney. Again, just getting back into cash games now. Thanks for pointing that out, it's helped me a lot.

Betsizing and postflop play are weaknesses for me, especially OOP. After I raise preflop, I almost always (80% +) bet on the high side of half the pot, and on the low side of 2/3 the pot, postflop - I do this whether it's a c-bet or a value bet. Here, I thought I was value betting. On the turn, I almost always double the amount of the flop bet - again, I thought I was value betting, and wasn't thinking much about protecting the pot - other than the flush draw, I didn't think the board looked very dangerous. I bet a little more than double my postflop bet in this situation because I thought he had to have a 10 or a flush draw to call the postflop bet. If he has a 10, I wanted value - if he has a flush draw, I want him to fold.

I use this relatively consistent bet sizing to mask whether my hand is any good. I raise some speculative hands preflop depending on position, and I've been worried that I'd tip off whether my hand was speculative or not if I varied the postflop betting based on whether my hand was any good.

Any suggestions on what I should be thinking about here? What size raise would you be using postflop, and why? Both your comments are extremely helpful, thanks.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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I think the key is what Belgo says; if he's aggressive postflop then his range for making the turn raise is much wider. If, as you say, he's passive, then he's likely doing this with something that beats what he's guessing that you have; an overpair or TP which would mean at least 2 pair if not a set.

Generally I'd suggest raising more in cash games than in tournaments, more often 4X than 3X preflop and between 2/3 and pot on both the flop and turn assuming fairly full stacks at the table.
 
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