[25nl FR] TT, 1 suit flop, get it in ?

UTG+2: $27.04 (108.2 bb)
MP1: $26.77 (107.1 bb)
MP2: $24.40 (97.6 bb)
MP3: $17.72 (70.9 bb)
CO: $4.02 (16.1 bb)
BTN: $20.18 (80.7 bb)
Hero (SB): $25 (100 bb)
BB: $25 (100 bb)
UTG: $34.91 (139.6 bb)
UTG+1: $26.50 (106 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with T T
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, UTG+2 calls $0.25, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to $2, 3 folds, Hero calls $1.90, 3 folds, UTG+2 calls $1.75

Flop: ($6.75) 4 3 5 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets $3.21, Hero raises to $12.40, UTG+2 raises to $25.04 and is all-in, MP2 folds, Hero ???

MP2 is 16/9.5/2 347 hands.
UTG+2 is 12/4/2 vs Flop cbet he's F% 63 C% 25 R% 13.

Is this a legitimate set mine with TT ? Then on flop his cbet looked weak. It's half the pot so I was thinking, I have a medium to big spade and an overpair. It's very possible I'm ahead, no ? I could get calls from a bigger Spade, and possibly a wheeldraw+a flushdraw ?

So is this reraise ok or should I flat? What if I flat and the spade comes, are we betting it ? Do we want to go to showdown with a flush T high ?

On the other hand, what if no spade comes and a card lower then our TT comes. Do we take over the betting? If he fires again, do we flat again ?

Of course we don't get there cause UTG+2 shoves. At this point I'm thinking I got what I wanted, a big flushdraw with possibly a wheeldraw is shoving his money in trying to hit his multi draw. So we call right ? Or are we not yet committed and fold ?

PF: Fine. Good setmine situation.

FLOP: I'd flat here for a few reasons:

1) Beware of the check-raise since you are not the last to act and the board is so drawy. Your raise committed you. A flat call would not and you could get away from your hand much easier if a check-raise comes.

2) You have to think of what they called PF with. They are much more likely to be holding at least one of the higher spades in a raised pot. I'd only play for the 10-high flush here in a limped pot.

3) You say that the c-bet looked weak. Could be a trap. A stronger c-bet is more likely to mean a weaker hand imo. Flat the cheaper bet to see the next card.


As I've said before: Aggression is nice when it works. But it costs you more when it doesn't, so pick your spots wisely.

MrSticker said:

1) Beware of the check-raise since you are not the last to act and the board is so drawy. Your raise committed you. A flat call would not and you could get away from your hand much easier if a check-raise comes.

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Is this a legitimate concern or are you saying this because you already know the other guy check raised ?

So saying we flat and for some reason the guy behind me flatted too or folded. How do we move on from there ?

Same scenario's as in my OP. (spade, no spade, etc..)

Against non-calling stations I actually don't even like flatting this preflop. Set mining oop just kinda sucks. But maybe the typical 25nl player (or this guy here) stacks too light postflop and it's +ev. Anyway, given that you are set mining preflop, I don't like the flop raise. I just think almost all worse hands either shove on you or fold. It may be good to raise just to chase out naked flush draws though idk for sure. But the flop push is almost always flush/set/combo draw. You're ahead of none of those and behind the first 2 and sometimes even the last one if it's JJ+ with a spade. If you're going to raise this flop I think you can do it less here and then fold to the shove.

edit: never mind on the set mining, didn't realize there was all the dead money and probably more calling, the preflop flat is fine imo.

What type of hands do you expect to call your all in on the flop enty?
How do you think you fare against those hands in equity?

Try punching them into pokerstove and see what you get.

What I'm getting at is that against any hand you're getting it in on the flop with, you're at best a coinflip. You're drawing near-dead against flushes, bigger pairs with spades, etc, are drawing to a flush/set against an overpair without a spade (which won't always stack this flop), or are a 60/40 against something like AsKd.

My general line here would be to call and reevaluate the turn. We're actually going to have such a tough time on most turns, especially if the button comes along, that I wouldn't hate just check-folding this flop.

Im not sure I call this pf unless I have reason to beleive that some of the limpers are comming along as well. Depending on the raiser I am usually folding or 3betting here. Set mining OOP is so so difficult to get money unless you are up against a complete station who cant let go of his hand ever.

Knowing nothing about the opponents I am probably just check folding since I have no idea where I am at and am OOP.

Zach,Chuck- whats your plan on the turn if a spade hits? or if a 8d hits or Ac? I just dont know how we can procede here profitable by calling. As played this is a call as your odds are way to good to fold.

widowmaker89 said:

Zach,Chuck- whats your plan on the turn if a spade hits? or if a 8d hits or Ac? I just dont know how we can procede here profitable by calling. As played this is a call as your odds are way to good to fold.

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I really don't like flatting. Like I said I don't mind the raise (although I'd do it a bit smaller) but I think it's either raise-fold or just fold.

ChuckTs said:

What type of hands do you expect to call your all in on the flop enty?
How do you think you fare against those hands in equity?

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Well like I said overcards with a spade. Probably only Asx type hands since I don't really see much Ksx Qsx type flush draws shoving.

When he got the Asx obviously he also has a wheeldraw so combo draws would be your answer.

Sets would be shoving and I guess I have some outs but not great.

Overpairs without a spade probably, trying to avoid the spade and get their money in good now.

And then the hands that crush me, made flushes etc.

I don't know the exact numbers, and I have yet to get pstove, but I'm guessing I'm in pretty bad shape against those hands ?

...go get it and try.

I already listed what your equity is like for each hand group, but seriously if you don't already have pokerstove (which again is FREE), then you need to get it asap.

eNTy said:

Is this a legitimate concern or are you saying this because you already know the other guy check raised ?

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Nope. I always consider my position before I raise. Standard poker imo. If I'm in the middle and not sure of things, I don't raise.

So saying we flat and for some reason the guy behind me flatted too or folded. How do we move on from there ?Same scenario's as in my OP. (spade, no spade, etc..)

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Well. At 25NL, I've seen pots get checked down after this kind of action. Not to say that is likely, but I think it's worth staying in if I really want to see the turn.

Now having said that and seeing what others have said, I must say that I still like setmining the 10's PF. But now after thinking about it, I might be more likely to fold to the flop bet since our flush draw is so weak. I'd be interested in what PStove says in this situation.

based on ranges given pstove is going to say we are getting destroyed, there really isnt much we are ahead of and getting crushed by a lot, I dont have it on this comp(work) but it isnt really close.