25nl fr QQ mp against a super lag

eagle jim

eagle jim

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Been at the table for an hour or so villan is 93/3/0.6 over 67 hands with a 0 3bet and 0 fold to 3bet. Also 0 fold bb and sb to steal. His mo was to call, call, call and then make a big raise/re-raise on the river and the few times he actually got called he had the goods. Thoughts on how to play this hand.

HAND #1
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poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

Hero (MP1): $40.50 (162 bb)
MP2: $26 (104 bb)
MP3: $6.55 (26.2 bb)
CO: $12.10 (48.4 bb)
BTN: $47.15 (188.6 bb)
SB: $19.65 (78.6 bb)
BB: $73.75 (295 bb)
UTG+1: $45.35 (181.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is MP1 with Q
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Q
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UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, CO calls $1, BTN folds, SB calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($4) J
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J
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7
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(4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero ???
Villan still to act and all I know is that he has two cards and he will call.
Where do we go from here and what is our best line (sb and button are really of no importance, both have been playing weak and will probably fold to a bet (unless they have a jack).

I think this is either WA/WB and hopefully we are WA but I am not sure how best to play against a calling station with this hand.
 
icemonkey9

icemonkey9

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I think this is a place where I would definitely bet this flop. It's doubtful but not impossible that someone did outflop you with a J. I'd probably bet the flop.

The problem with your setup is that we have 3 villains in the hand and I dont know anything about the other two. What are their collective "Fold to Cbet" stats? I imagine the "other two" are high and the villain is like 0.

I think your cbet here gets called by your villain and then folded by the rest. The villain will stick to his MO and if he outflopped you or hits some miracle card, then fine ... but make sure if he doesn't that hes going to pay you off.
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Against a 93/3 ? Are you serious, he dosn't have to have a Jack to call any sort of bet from you. Any 7 calls, any pair calls, you can even get value from ace high here.

If you bet and get called from either of the blinds then its pretty easy to shut down, I just bet 3/4 pot here.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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villan is 93/3/0.6 over 67 hands

I am not sure how best to play against a calling station with this hand.

Are you serious? Villain is a spineless calling station. Just value bet the hell out of him and fold if he shows aggression as this is always the J here.
 
F

feitr

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93/3 is not a LAG that is a huge passive fish. Bet for value as you can get called so wide on this flop/turn etc.
 
ChuckTs

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Yep this is a clear value bet. Villain will peel with ace high, any pair, overcards, any gutshot, some random other floats...

.6 isn't all that passive for a 93 vpip player. He may ch-minr a 7 or something, so I'm not giving up completely unless he clearly wants to play for stacks.
 
eagle jim

eagle jim

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Ok I bet $2.25 on the flop when it was folded to me, got 2 folds and bb called.

Turn was a :7c4: . I really did not like that card, since obviously if he was calling with a Jack or a seven he just filled up. He checked and I checked behind.

River was a :2s4: . He led out for 4.25............HERO??????
 
ChuckTs

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Hero calls. He'll be dumb enough to bet hands down to Ax here, and will probably bluff his underpairs a good chunk of the time.
 
J

Jake

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Well you can certainly consider a fold. This isn't the original villian here. this is the BB that would have no reason to be in this hand without a J or 7. If you call you're hoping for a TT/99/88. If I had absolutely no read on the BB I might make a crying call.
 
eagle jim

eagle jim

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TBH fold never crossed my mind, this was just a typical play by this villan....called flop bets, called turn bets, then led out with a big(ish) bet on the river. I just was not sure whether to shove or call. His bet was not big enough to be a boat. I did in fact call and villan turned over 86o.
 
califantasy

califantasy

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You bet half the pot on the flop, then checked the turn.

You have done a pretty good job of confirming that you do not have any help from the board.

I suppose he could have a J or 7, but you can't know without calling. A bet on the turn on the other hand would have provided some valuable info, and likely prevented a value bet on the river if he was content to slow-play.

He called preflop, out-of-position, so you have to give him credit for something. Do any of the hands you can put him on include a jack?

If I dug your hole, I probably call the river bet (3 to 1 pot odds) out of curiosity, to try to gather intel for later if I'm not picking up the pot.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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A bet on the turn on the other hand would have provided some valuable info

I think you need to reread the rules of poker. At the end of the session, the winners are those who have won the most money, not those who have acquired the most information about the hands.

Betting for information is often a major leak in cash games.
 
califantasy

califantasy

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winners are those who have won the most money, not those who have acquired the most information about the hands

Who said anything about information about the hands? I was talking about gathering information about the opponent.

Or do you think poker is like solitaire?:joyman:
 
rileyl

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Belgo is completely right from reading your posts you seem to put way too much emphasis on gathering "Information" from your bets. That's a HUGE leak in your game.

As for the hand, I like the way OP played it and it is a snap call on the river imo. This type of player shows up with an Ace sooooo often here and in reality could have almost anything here given his stats.
 
califantasy

califantasy

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Belgo is completely right from reading your posts you seem to put way too much emphasis on gathering "Information" from your bets. That's a HUGE leak in your game.

As for the hand, I like the way OP played it and it is a snap call on the river imo. This type of player shows up with an Ace sooooo often here and in reality could have almost anything here given his stats.

Maybe I'm old-school, and we will have to agree to disagree. I still think that information about your opponent is valuable, and I'll make a small pay-off for the opportunity to get some insight into how dangerous my opponent is, so I can get him into a bigger pot later. Amazingly enough, some of the pay-offs turn into me picking up a pot, so its not really as big a 'leak' as you describe.

As for the hand, you and I would have both called with the notion that we could be beat--the only difference is that I was looking to get some insight if I didn't pick up the pot.
 
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