[25NL FR] QQ Facing Check Raise Shove

I really don't think there is much to think about here, Jake. Bad player, can easily be calling a 3bet with A-rag. Flop is super dry..sucks but I think this should be a lay down here.

Why are you betting the flop at all here?

why are we betting the flop?
villain has kinda retard stats but he is still probably not calling the flop with out an ace and he is not folding a ace,so whats our bet suposed to accomplish?
As played i fold here but it much rather check behind and either call one street of betting our bet the turn if checked to....


edit: what Dsvw said.....

is that not weak checking behind?

Read this Jake: https://www.cardschat.com/f49/wa-wb-concept-76525/?highlight=WA/Wb

This is a check behind.

Jurn8 said:

is that not weak checking behind?

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maybe but its more weak imo to bet in a wa/wb situation .
your beat already or he has 3-6 outs so a free card wont hurt u to much.
Let him bluff the turn or you can bet it for value if he checks.

If the flop where K-high i would hate the bet a little less since there a lot more aces in his range then kings,a 47/21 is probably playing all aces but only like KTo+ and suited kings.

Jurn8 said:

is that not weak checking behind?

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When you have what is essentially a bluff-catcher, wouldn't it be good to appear weak? Checking the flop here is absolutely standard, and betting should never enter your brain.

I see everyone else beat me to it, but this is a check behind on the flop virtually every single time.

You will only get folds from worse hands and calls from better hands so why on earth do you bet it? The fact you had the 3rd best starting hand means absolutely nothing after the flop.

Read the WA/WB link WV posted earlier..good stuff.

As played this is a snapfold.

are we checking behind even if villian is not this loose or is it villian specific here?

Jurn8 said:

are we checking behind even if villian is not this loose or is it villian specific here?

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Read the WA/WB thread....

will do 2moro, sorry im too tired now

The WA/WB thread made my life just so much easier!

However say I check behind here turn is a 2 he bets I flat and then river is another blank. Do you not think villian would bet his 10 for value?

Jurn8 said:

The WA/WB thread made my life just so much easier!

However say I check behind here turn is a 2 he bets I flat and then river is another blank. Do you not think villian would bet his 10 for value?

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when i check behind here im planing to bet turn if checked to or call one street if blank hits.
Im not calling two streets here.

ok even without the wa/wb theory, think about what the goal of your flop bet is. Against someone this bad it will be a value bet, because he will call with some worse and will NEVER fold better. So what hands are we value betting against? Tx/PPs/maybe some gutshots. How many of these hands are calling multiple streets? When he's drawing to at most 4 outs if behind (I guess 5 if he has a pair but then we get a redraw to counterfit his 2 pair) we really don't need to worry about a free card. We can let him turn it into a bluff and also make our own hand appear weaker. For this reason though I definitely bet the turn because he may call us with some gutshots being this bad but even he probably won't call river with a missed gutshot.

As to your question if we check back flop and he bets turn and river on blanks I think it depends on bet sizing as to whether we call the river. If he pots it we can fold but if he bets like 1/2 pot we may be able to call. Reads help also. But generally fish are not going to bet as much when going for thin value.