25NL FR JJ Overpair line check

Just looking for a line check here. Not completely sure about raising flop. Does everything look ok?

BB is 39/0/1.3 over 36 hands
MP1 is 9/7/1.7 over 92 hands

Stacks:
* UTG+1 with $4.65
* MP1 with $34.70
* MP2 with $13.40
* MP3 with $25.00
* CO with $4.70
* BTN with $32.00
* SB with $10.85
* BB with $50.20
* UTG with $16.50




Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: pokerstars
* * Dealt to BTN:J♠ J♣
* * Sklansky group 1
Preflop:
* * 2 players fold.
* * MP1 raises $0.75 to $1
* * 3 players fold.
* * Hero calls [$1]
* * SB calls [$0.90]
* * BB calls [$0.75]
* * Total folds this street: 5
* * Potsize: $4.25
Flop:
* * 7♠ 3♥ 10♠
* * SB: checks
* * BB bets [$1.25]
* * MP1 calls [$1.25]
* * Hero raises $4 to $5.25
* * 1 players fold.
* * BB calls [$4]
* * 1 players folded.
* * Total folds this street: 2
* * Potsize: $16
Turn:
* * 6♣
* * BB: checks
* * Hero: checks
* * Potsize: $16
River:
* * K♠
* * BB bets [$1.75]
* * 1 players fold.
* * Hero calls [$1.75]
Results:
* * BB shows three of a kind, Kings:
* * K♣ K♦ Hero doesn't show.
* * BB collected $18.60 from pot

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum

1) Why no pre-flop 3-bet?
2) Why are we raising the flop & then playing pot control on the turn? If you're going to raise the flop & threaten his stack, why not stick it in on the turn?

1. No preflop 3 bet because I think I'm almost turning my hand into a bluff as I don't think this player will call my 3Bet with much worse. I have position and I just didn't see the need for 3Betting here.

2. That's kind of what I'm wondering, should this be a raise on the flop. I don't mind checking the turn after I raise the flop because I can't see many hands that call that flop raise that I have beat and can get value from against this type of villain. I guess maybe A 10 but he probably would even fold that.

rileyl said:

1. No preflop 3 bet because I think I'm almost turning my hand into a bluff as I don't think this player will call my 3Bet with much worse. I have position and I just didn't see the need for 3Betting here.

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Your 3-bet is more than just for value. It also prevents other calls behind you, which is important at full ring. And it takes some serious discipline to fold AQ/TT to a 3-bet. You have the 4th nuts, 3-betting for value is goot.

2. That's kind of what I'm wondering, should this be a raise on the flop. I don't mind checking the turn after I raise the flop because I can't see many hands that call that flop raise that I have beat and can get value from against this type of villain. I guess maybe A 10 but he probably would even fold that.

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If you're raising the flop, you do it for 2 reasons:

1) To charge draws.
2) To get value from AT, KT.

And if you raise the flop, those reasons are still valid on the turn, and you should pretty much get it in on the turn. Maybe the river. Otherwise, why raise the flop?

Idk, this whole hand just seems backwards. You have a hand preflop that exponentially loses strength the more streets you get into the hand. Then you raise a flop that's sorta drawy, but not especially scary. Then once the pot is bloated, you're relying on your opponent to not get all in with a hand that you beat.

Obviously i definitely normally 3Bet this preflop but I still dont think calling is that bad with position.

Of course betting the turn is fine, IF I think I can still get value from A 10 K 10 but against this villain I think it is very unlikely. I dont know but maybe our differences come from you playing 6 max and me FR but I don't see too many times with this kind of action from this villain that I can bet this turn. Obviously he might have a draw of some kind but I think controlling the pot size outweighs the risk of giving a drawing hand a free card.

I think you played it pretty well considering everything of course. But oh well what the heck cant win em all right?

Riley, your argument makes no sense. You cite pot control & a slim v-bet calling range that you beat as reasons to not bet the turn. But pot control is already out the window, since our opponent can get all in with just 1 pot-sized bet.

The only reason your reasoning would change on the turn is if the turn card was a bad card for our holding. And while the 6 does complete some draws, I still think its a fairly safe card.

If you put your opponent on such a tight range preflop that you can't 3-bet, then why do you raise the flop? AK/AQ and hands that would call a 3-bet preflop won't be calling a raise on the flop. Our value range is even smaller here.

All of your reasoning makes sense in a vacuum, but as a whole your line doesn't make a lot of sense. Either 3-bet pre, and play the hand out, or play pot control in position. But you do one thing pre-flop & turn, and something different on the flop.

So was your flop raise a mistake?

Now that I think about it I think the flop raise was a mistake. Your right on about how not 3Betting pre and then raising the flop makes no sense. I definitely think that was the problem and that was the main reason I was posting this thread was to talk about the flop raise.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if he folds to a turn all-in. Not that it really matters but I would say that there might be a decent chance that I could have got him to lay it down. Lol that woulld have been funny.

He's not folding kings, stop being results oriented. Think about the line that is going to get the maximum value out of his whole range. Villain had the top of his range in this particular instance, which is fine, its going to happen & that's why you play with a big bankroll.

IMO, against a nitty player, I 3-bet preflop, c-bet the flop, and then proceed to showdown cheaply.

No I'm not being results oriented. I'm just curious lol. I know it doesn't matter if he would have folded or not but I was just saying that I would bet this type of player might even fold Kings in that spot. Yah the line you suggest definitely makes the hand easier to play.