25NL FR

joos

joos

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Total posts
272
Chips
0
pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($27.50)
MP2 ($25)
CO ($17.10)
Button ($36.20)
SB ($22.90)
BB ($24.65)
UTG ($22.25)
UTG+1 ($4.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q
heart.gif
, Q
club.gif
. MP2 posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.2, 1 fold, CO raises to $3, 3 folds, Hero ?

Villain is 15/14/inf over 120 hands His 3 bet % is 11 which seems really high if im correct. Do I just ship it in here since he is not on a full stack?
 
B

bw07507

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Total posts
2,219
Chips
0
Against an aggressive villain like that on a ~75bb stack I think shoving it in here is fine. You dont really want to be playing a hand OoP against an aggressive opponent like that since if an A or K comes on the flop u will have to check and villain will bet no matter what he has. Also, his 3bet% is 11 so his range is much larger than AA and KK.
 
icemonkey9

icemonkey9

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Total posts
3,023
Chips
0
Yeah at this point you have to put a plan together that you'd have to live with...

Possibility 1: Shove. He could fold or turn over something like AK which is a coinflip or (ideally) JJ or something like that.

Possibility 2: Call the 3bet PF and no matter what comes on the flop donk bet it. You're OOP and if you check that flop you know he's going to throttle it. If there is no A or K on that flop you can then re-raise or just shove.

Possibility 3: Call the 3bet, check, and play back at him (or fold).

To be honest in the heat of the moment I'd shove given his stack size and 3bet % (we're ahead of that range). It may not be the smart TAG play ... maybe it is. It's what I'd do.
 
Richyl2008

Richyl2008

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Total posts
731
Chips
0
I think getting it in here is fine. I would 4bet him to $8 or so and call a shove, or just shove any flop if he just calls
 
dsvw56

dsvw56

I'm a Taurus
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Total posts
1,716
Chips
0
Call and CRAI on any non A/K flop.
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 25, 2007
Total posts
1,935
Chips
0
icemonkey9 said:
Yeah at this point you have to put a plan together that you'd have to live with...

Possibility 1: Shove. He could fold or turn over something like AK which is a coinflip or (ideally) JJ or something like that.

Possibility 2: Call the 3bet PF and no matter what comes on the flop donk bet it. You're OOP and if you check that flop you know he's going to throttle it. If there is no A or K on that flop you can then re-raise or just shove.

Possibility 3: Call the 3bet, check, and play back at him (or fold).

To be honest in the heat of the moment I'd shove given his stack size and 3bet % (we're ahead of that range). It may not be the smart TAG play ... maybe it is. It's what I'd do.
Click to expand...

# 2, i have been having alot of succes doing this lately.

dsvw56 said:
Call and CRAI on any non A/K flop.
Click to expand...

not such a grat way to go imo, 13/21 times his 11% range (77+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,ATo+,KQo) will hot according to pokerstove so we will be winning less than half which isnt +ev in this situaltion.

After checkin p-stove these result were interesting, maybe shoving is a very good option here,

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
1,263,680,352 games 0.005 secs 252,736,070,400 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.115% 33.45% 00.66% 422705952 8403450.00 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, KQo }
Hand 1: 65.885% 65.22% 00.66% 824167500 8403450.00 { QQ }

Saying that, in the heat of the moment I would probably call and either c/r c/f or donk the flop depending on board texture.
 
joos

joos

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Total posts
272
Chips
0
steez38: raises $24.50 to $27.50 and is all-in
ghis001: calls $14.10 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($10.40) returned to steez38
*** FLOP *** [9d 8d 5s]
*** TURN *** [9d 8d 5s] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [9d 8d 5s Tc] J♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
steez38: shows [Qh Qc] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
ghis001: mucks hand
steez38 collected $33.10 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $34.80 | Rake $1.70
Board [9d 8d 5s Tc Jh]
Seat 1: steez38 showed [Qh Qc] and won ($33.10) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 2: laochuhulo folded before Flop
Seat 4: ghis001 mucked [Ks Kd]
Seat 5: jesus888 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: glenf09 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: viva el rio (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: djbruxism folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: AceMdown folded before Flop (didn't bet)


I got lucky on that one but what about this one vs the same villain like 20 hands later?

PokerStars Game #18476196226: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/06/29 - 22:58:52 (ET)
Table 'Chiron' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: steez38 ($43.15 in chips)
Seat 2: laochuhulo ($43.55 in chips)
Seat 3: ryanDboy ($24.50 in chips)
Seat 4: ghis001 ($19.65 in chips)
Seat 5: jesus888 ($17.05 in chips)
Seat 6: glenf09 ($22.60 in chips)
Seat 7: viva el rio ($24.30 in chips)
Seat 8: djbruxism ($24.40 in chips)
Seat 9: AceMdown ($2.25 in chips)
jesus888: posts small blind $0.10
glenf09: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to steez38 [Qd Qs]
viva el rio: folds
djbruxism has timed out
djbruxism: folds
djbruxism is sitting out
AceMdown: folds
steez38: raises $0.75 to $1
laochuhulo: folds
ryanDboy: folds
djbruxism has returned
ghis001: raises $1.75 to $2.75
jesus888: folds
glenf09: folds
steez38: calls $1.75
*** FLOP *** [2s Td 6d]
steez38: ?
 
Munchrs

Munchrs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 25, 2007
Total posts
1,935
Chips
0
joos said:
steez38: raises $24.50 to $27.50 and is all-in
ghis001: calls $14.10 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($10.40) returned to steez38
*** FLOP *** [9d 8d 5s]
*** TURN *** [9d 8d 5s] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [9d 8d 5s Tc] J♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
steez38: shows [Qh Qc] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
ghis001: mucks hand
steez38 collected $33.10 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $34.80 | Rake $1.70
Board [9d 8d 5s Tc Jh]
Seat 1: steez38 showed [Qh Qc] and won ($33.10) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 2: laochuhulo folded before Flop
Seat 4: ghis001 mucked [Ks Kd]
Seat 5: jesus888 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: glenf09 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: viva el rio (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: djbruxism folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: AceMdown folded before Flop (didn't bet)


I got lucky on that one but what about this one vs the same villain like 20 hands later?

PokerStars Game #18476196226: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/06/29 - 22:58:52 (ET)
Table 'Chiron' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: steez38 ($43.15 in chips)
Seat 2: laochuhulo ($43.55 in chips)
Seat 3: ryanDboy ($24.50 in chips)
Seat 4: ghis001 ($19.65 in chips)
Seat 5: jesus888 ($17.05 in chips)
Seat 6: glenf09 ($22.60 in chips)
Seat 7: viva el rio ($24.30 in chips)
Seat 8: djbruxism ($24.40 in chips)
Seat 9: AceMdown ($2.25 in chips)
jesus888: posts small blind $0.10
glenf09: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to steez38 [Qd Qs]
viva el rio: folds
djbruxism has timed out
djbruxism: folds
djbruxism is sitting out
AceMdown: folds
steez38: raises $0.75 to $1
laochuhulo: folds
ryanDboy: folds
djbruxism has returned
ghis001: raises $1.75 to $2.75
jesus888: folds
glenf09: folds
steez38: calls $1.75
*** FLOP *** [2s Td 6d]
steez38: ?
Click to expand...

c/r?
 
dsvw56

dsvw56

I'm a Taurus
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Total posts
1,716
Chips
0
Munchrs said:
not such a grat way to go imo, 13/21 times his 11% range (77+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,ATo+,KQo) will hot according to pokerstove so we will be winning less than half which isnt +ev in this situaltion.

After checkin p-stove these result were interesting, maybe shoving is a very good option here,

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
1,263,680,352 games 0.005 secs 252,736,070,400 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.115% 33.45% 00.66% 422705952 8403450.00 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, ATo+, KQo }
Hand 1: 65.885% 65.22% 00.66% 824167500 8403450.00 { QQ }
Click to expand...

Running equity vs. his 3-betting range is useless, as he's not calling a shove with his whole 3-betting range. I doubt his calling range is any wider than TT+, AK and even that may be too wide. Versus that range we have roughly 52% equity. If we take out TT, we're down to 47%. So we crush his 3-betting range, but flip with his calling range. We maximize our value vs. his 3-betting range by calling and check raising all-in. We get extra value from a C-bet from basically his entire range that isnt calling a shove and perhaps get him to commit with hands that wouldnt call shove.
 
Top