25nl 6m - BvB flop spot w/ 33, ranges and options? (will be tl;dr)

OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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so this happened earlier today. it's not that interesting honestly but I found myself thinking about options and wanted to get my thoughts into a written format, so here we are!

so we're BvB vs a nit-reg and he opens, standard right?

PokerStars - £0.25 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

SB: £42.09 (VPIP: 16.18, PFR: 11.03, 3Bet Preflop: 2.86, Hands: 139)
Hero (BB): £27.93

SB posts SB £0.10, Hero posts BB £0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: £0.35) Hero has 3h 3d
fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to £0.75, Hero calls £0.50


we flat because he has a wide-ish range, we're BvB, we have a pair, we're better and in position so.. yeah, easy flat.
(3betting seems pointless, we get a bunch of folds but when we're flatted we either spew or give up too often imo)

Flop : (£1.50, 2 players) 8h 8c Ad
SB checks


so this is the confusing bit for me personally. our options are:

a) check and evaluate turn
b) bet, check turn and evaluate river
c) bet, bet turn and check river
d) bet, bet turn and bet river

so I'll start with d) since it should be the quickest. imo, when he x/c's 2 streets vs me on this board, his range is pretty strong. most run outs aren't going to change the board and if we see a broadway on the turn/river that makes him even less likely to fold A6o or whatever else might consider folding to a triple.

c)'s an ok option, assuming most of his range that x/c's flops are pairs and weak K highs and other stuff but the problem with this is that when we get to the river we're never ahead, so we're only folding out KK-99 on turns which is a pretty tight range.

ok, so to b). this is the option I went with, I personally don't like it now.. although the positives of are:

- we can win the pot right here a fair bit
- we get air to fold that has 9 outs vs us
- we get air to fold that can turn equity and semi-bluff us off the slightly best hand
- we can bink turns and win a bigger pot when we do (small advantage)
- we can check turns and check back rivers for SD (small advantage)

a) I like this now, thinking about it. we can call some turns and probably get to showdown vs a weakish range, and we don't tighten his flop range to strictly hands that crush us.. also when we call turn and he barrels river, we're pretty sure we're behind so that makes our river decisions a lot easier.

so, opinions? :rolleyes:
 
DaReKa

DaReKa

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Technically, all the answers are wrong. You should never decide to check blind; you should evaluate each new street. :)
But option B is definitely the best IMO. Depending on the opponent I would call pre and give up completely when missed (check it down), or bet the flop when checked to and give up completely when called. So unless I hit the 3 for a full house after he check/calls, I wouldn't put any more money in.
 
T

tohos

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Would be good if we knew his RFI from the small blind. I think how we choose to play this hand depends highly on our perceived range, whether he is able to put us on this range and his tendencies that we know of or he thinks we know of. However, given that he is a very tight player I think his post flop play is likely not very strong so maybe it doesn't matter too much.

First lets put him on a probable checking range. I will go off on a limb and put him on either a weak ace, air or pocket pairs. He can have an 8 but I don't think his range has a lot of 8s in it.

I think he would fold his air to single barrel most of the time. His stronger pocket pairs 99-KK and weak Aces, he will most likely call at least 2 barrels imo. 22-77 I think he would give up to a double barrel unless he is a good post flop player which I think he probably is not since he plays so tight.

Given that he is quite a tight player, I think he is more likely to have the air/Aces/99-KK here more often than 22-77. So if he calls your flop bet, you should either triple barrel or just check it down and give up. I guess it depends on his post flop stats and how often he would be able to lay down his weak Aces and 99-KK.

Doubt he is ever folding strong Aces here but is he capable of trap/pot control/let you bluff with these hands?

If he was a good post flop player, it involves more consideration of our perceived ranges and how we play those as well.

If we are 3betting our strong Aces most of the time BvB, its hard for us to rep a strong Ace here so if he knows this, our tripple barrel line, option d, is extremely polarised into an 8 or mostly air and will likely get called light.

So if he can rule out strong Aces from our range, what can we rep. Weak Aces, 8 or weak/mid pairs(again assume we 3b our stronger pairs).

I'll just figure out what reps an Ace or an 8 since we don't want to be repping weak/mid pairs. We are likely to be a big favourite or big dog against his range. Betting does not accomplish much in getting value, so letting him stab is the best option. Checking is the best option both for pot controlling the times we are beat and to get value from the hands we beat which would fold to a bet(air). Then betting turn and river to get value from his pair hands is probably the best play.

So if we want to rep an Ace, its probably best for us to check and evaluate turn. If he checks to us twice, it is probably a green light for us to bet and take the pot right there. I feel 99/TT maybe JJ would likely bet turn for protection against KX QX hands.

If he bets out turn I would float quite often, depending on the turn card and bet most rivers if he checks it. We could also bet bet check to rep a weak Ace but thats no good if we go to showdown, since it doesn't matter what we rep if we don't have what we rep. Bet bet check also seems like how a weak pair like our hand might play in this spot imo.

If we had an 8, again we either check to let him stab since alot of the times he won't be able to call or bet and hope he can call. Again, as I've said before, most of his calling range is likely calling at least twice. So we should be triple barreling or giving up after one shot. But I would rather rep the Ace since it is more believable and I don't think 25NL players are folding anything that beats a weak Ace here anyways so no point representing an 8.

Looking at our options, I would mostly check and sometimes triple barrel depending on the situation against relatively good post flop players as I feel we can represent the stronger range with this line.

Against bad post flop players, I would bet once and evaluate turn and river. Pray hit a 3 and jam it down. Depends on how often he c/c, c/c, c/f or c/c, c/f though. If he like to call call fold often I would most likely triple barrel him quite often.

TLDR;
if not good post flop player, option d if he like to call 1/2 streets and fold to the next bet. option b if stubborn with sdv hands.
if good post flop player, option a
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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nice thought process, I jusy looked his RFI SB v BB and its 2/10 -.-

but yeah I basically agree with what you said.
 
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