$25NL 6-max: 2 River Call Situations, Weird lines from Villains

c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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Hand #1: Villain is a 20/8/43% over 48 hands.

Hand #2: Villain is a 51/2/35% over 87 hands who folds to c-bets 33% of the time.

Our image is of course laggy, running at 31/27/nuts over the session. I have been caught making some pretty crazy bluffs, but not against these players, so I don't know if they're really paying attention.

I'd like any feedback you guys have on my line.

BB: $3.30 (13.2 bb)
MP: $85.63 (342.5 bb)
Hero (CO): $43.33 (173.3 bb)
BTN: $13.46 (53.8 bb)
SB: $25.29 (101.2 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with Q
club4.gif
K
heart4.gif

MP folds, Hero raises to $1, BTN folds, SB calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($3) 2
spade4.gif
6
heart4.gif
3
club4.gif
(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($3) K
spade4.gif
(3 players)
SB bets $3, BB folds, Hero raises to $7.95, SB calls $4.95

River: ($18.90) 6
spade4.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $16.34 and is all-in, Hero can't possibly call right?


CO: $24.99 (100 bb)
Hero (BTN): $36.55 (146.2 bb)
SB: $37.35 (149.4 bb)
BB: $14.92 (59.7 bb)
UTG: $9.62 (38.5 bb)
MP: $32.77 (131.1 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with J
heart4.gif
Q
diamond4.gif

UTG raises to $0.85, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.85, SB calls $0.75, BB folds

Flop: ($2.80) J
club4.gif
4
diamond4.gif
4
club4.gif
(3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $2.25, SB calls $2.25, UTG folds

Turn: ($7.30) 9
diamond4.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $4.50, Hero raises to $12.05, SB calls $7.55

River: ($31.40) Q
club4.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $22.20 and is all-in, Hero says wtf not again!
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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Both hands: why do you raise turn? Do you think villains call your raise with less than TP here? OK, maybe they do call with a flush draw, but then why do you give them such nice pot odds to make the call?

My preferred line in both cases would be to flat turn for pot control because I hate playing for stacks with TP. But if you do raise, it means you're willing to play for stacks unless the flush hits, right? If so, you should raise more.
 
Richyl2008

Richyl2008

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If your going to raise the turn realize that your usually setting up an allin confrontation. Make sure that is something that you want or don't mind before you do it.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I'm playing for stacks if the river blanks for sure in both cases. In the first hand, I raised enough to have a pot-sized bet left on the river.

In the second case, I just pumped it up small because his range is so wide & I want him to call with all of it. As you can see, he's been floating like 67% of flops, and leading into me a lot with a high aggression frequency. So yeah, I'm raising for value in both cases.

And if they have a flush draw in either case, its a bigger mistake to call than to raise small & give them decent pot odds to draw.
 
BelgoSuisse

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I'm playing for stacks if the river blanks for sure in both cases.

Well, I never play as lag as 31/27, so i don't really know what it does for your image, but it must be quite drastic if stacking with top pair good kicker is +EV.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Well, I never play as lag as 31/27, so i don't really know what it does for your image, but it must be quite drastic if stacking with top pair good kicker is +EV.
There's a difference between stacking TPGK on the flop, and when its hit on the turn. And I stack TPGK vs. fish all day long, cuz they stack a lot worse.
 
BelgoSuisse

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There's a difference between stacking TPGK on the flop, and when its hit on the turn. And I stack TPGK vs. fish all day long, cuz they stack a lot worse.

Second hand you hit TPGK on flop. But whatever.

I don't know. I think you have really good fishes in your tank if this is indeed profitable. I mean, we raise for value when we think we're ahead of the range of hands villain calls our raise with, right? I just don't see that happening on these turns.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Second hand you hit TPGK on flop. But whatever.
Second hand I'm against a super fish.

I don't know. I think you have really good fishes in your tank if this is indeed profitable. I mean, we raise for value when we think we're ahead of the range of hands villain calls our raise with, right? I just don't see that happening on these turns.
Fair enough. These opponents just aren't thinking that in depth. They say "I have a pair of 6's, its unlikely anyone hit the flop, I'm going to bet the turn". Or "J44 is a board no one can have anything on, he's just pushing me around like usual." They don't think about what range their willing to call with, ect.

Fish hate HATE HATE giving up, cuz folding isn't fun. Why not let them make thier favorite mistake? I just don't see being behind here on the turn against the fish in hand #2.
 
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sw7104

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Looks to me like a simple case of both villains drawing to a flush, which they hit, and are reading that you think they're trying to bluff you out of the pot...
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Looks to me like a simple case of both villains drawing to a flush, which they hit, and are reading that you think they're trying to bluff you out of the pot...
That is certainly a possibility. But don't you think that the fish in hand #2 has a much wider range than just flushes? And in my experience, fish usually bet min, or check/call with a flush draw. Sometimes they'll bet full pot, but this bet looks more stab-like to me.

I only have to be good 29% of the time in the 2nd hand to be profitable. The first hand is a little closer at 32% and a tighter player.
 
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c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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For what its worth, I called the fish in the 2nd hand and he showed 55 (wtf?). Folded to the more solid player when the scare card hit in the first hand. Couldn't figure out anything other than a down-right bluff that I was beating, and I'm not sure he'd shove KJ/KT.
 
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