25NL/50NL: 2 Hands Got Re-raised by UTG PF Limp/calls

I put these 2 hands together because they seem to be similar to me. One is a check-raise and one is a re-re-raise, but they both have to do with believing the villains after I raise PF and they limp/call from UTG.


No exact reads on this guy, but the table was pretty weak/loose-passive. I put him on TPTK. Would you? Next move?

POKERSTARS GAME #20859022182: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/10/02 0:47:50 ET
Table 'Athanasia IV' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: CMNilsson ($30.95 in chips)
Seat 2: jusmac ($33.60 in chips)
Seat 3: FACUMDP ($61.10 in chips)
Seat 4: MrSticker66 ($53.70 in chips)
Seat 5: LARSKEE ($32.15 in chips)
Seat 6: SRYsFINEST ($36.30 in chips)
Seat 7: Micha126 ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 8: JRAD23 ($46.95 in chips)
Seat 9: jasons0147 ($54.25 in chips)
jasons0147: posts small blind $0.25
CMNilsson: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker66 [Kc Kd]
jusmac: calls $0.50
FACUMDP: folds
MrSticker66: raises $1.50 to $2
LARSKEE: folds
SRYsFINEST: folds
Micha126: folds
JRAD23: folds
jasons0147: folds
CMNilsson: folds
jusmac: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [Qc Td 5d]
jusmac: bets $1.50
MrSticker66: raises $5 to $6.50
jusmac: raises $13.50 to $20
MrSticker66: ???????


This guy was new to the table but saw me C-bet a couple times and win folded pots. I put him on snapping off my C-bet with maybe a FD. Would you? Next move?

POKERSTARS GAME #20886037350: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/10/03 2:22:17 ET
Table 'Bootes II' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: stiff686 ($29.65 in chips)
Seat 3: Moneysuck ($20.20 in chips)
Seat 4: ryang421 ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: dullshot ($21.65 in chips)
Seat 7: chirak1982 ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 8: MrSticker66 ($30.20 in chips)
Moneysuck: posts small blind $0.10
ryang421: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker66 [Ad Td]
dullshot: calls $0.25
chirak1982: folds
MrSticker66: raises $1.25 to $1.50
stiff686: folds
Moneysuck: folds
ryang421: folds
dullshot: calls $1.25
*** FLOP *** [6d Ts 5s]
dullshot: checks
MrSticker66: bets $2.75
dullshot: raises $3.25 to $6
MrSticker66: ?????????

Hand 1 - I don't mind getting this in here. Villain has only a little over 60bb.QA,KQ, KJ, J9,xxdd, QT,10,55 are the most likely imo and your going to be ahead of that range in general.

Hand 2- I think folding or calling is ok here. Calling has a few good benefits since you may be able to pick up an A,10, or a diamond on the turn. It's also possible that you can still showdown cheaply if he decides to check back the turn.

^^^^ hand one shove, I like your read on him with TPTK
hand two I call and try for the SD cheap, but don't mind tossing it if i
can't improve/get a better read

Couple of things ... I was told only 1 hand per post in this thread, and also to always use the hand converter ...

That said ...

For the 50nl hand, since he's on a shortstack I'm guessing he's not a regular and if he had AA or KK he would never have flatted that raise preflop. From there and this action I'm guessing he has AQ. He might have hit a set of 10s or 5s or *maybe* he has two pair like QT, but without stats on him I would shove with the overpair.

The 25nl hand is somewhat similiar I suppose. Very doubtful he has JJ-AA. So maybe he has something like T9s.

For the 50nl hand, since he's on a shortstack I'm guessing he's not a regular and if he had AA or KK he would never have flatted that raise preflop.

Click to expand...

I'm going to disagree with this statement. I find that short buyers frequently like to slowplay so they can get all their chips in when they have AA or KK. I think limp-reraise is more common, but I think they do limp-call strong (unless you have stats to show a loose VPIP). Nevertheless, you do have KK, so I'm not sure it matters much.

I do agree with the overall sentiment that the first hand is a shove and the second hand should be played more gingerly (with position, yay!).

In general, I'm more inclined to like our spot in the first hand but not like it in the second. Part of the reason is that we beat more hands in the first case (there are plenty of overpairs in hand #2). The other main reason is the reverse implied odds. In the first hand, the money left behind is insignificant, so it's really just a decision of whether you think you have the best hand now (which I think you do). In the second hand, you stand to lose a lot of extra money if you're wrong, and you won't win much extra if you're right. That is not to say I advocate folding, but I'd exercise pot control. I'd play position, call off bluffs if non-scare cards come, and probably fold if scare cards do come.

Well, I chose not to believe either one of them and I guessed wrong on both. Anyone have anything to add now that the results are shown? I'm looking for WHY my plays were wrong or right.

POKERSTARS GAME #20859022182: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/10/02 0:47:50 ET
Table 'Athanasia IV' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: CMNilsson ($30.95 in chips)
Seat 2: jusmac ($33.60 in chips)
Seat 3: FACUMDP ($61.10 in chips)
Seat 4: MrSticker66 ($53.70 in chips)
Seat 5: LARSKEE ($32.15 in chips)
Seat 6: SRYsFINEST ($36.30 in chips)
Seat 7: Micha126 ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 8: JRAD23 ($46.95 in chips)
Seat 9: jasons0147 ($54.25 in chips)
jasons0147: posts small blind $0.25
CMNilsson: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker66 [Kc Kd]
jusmac: calls $0.50
FACUMDP: folds
MrSticker66: raises $1.50 to $2
LARSKEE: folds
SRYsFINEST: folds
Micha126: folds
JRAD23 has timed out
JRAD23: folds
JRAD23 is sitting out
JRAD23 has returned
jasons0147: folds
CMNilsson: folds
jusmac: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [Qc Td 5d]
jusmac: bets $1.50
MrSticker66: raises $5 to $6.50
jusmac: raises $13.50 to $20
MrSticker66: raises $13.50 to $33.50
jusmac: calls $11.60 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($1.90) returned to MrSticker66
*** TURN *** [Qc Td 5d] [8s]
*** RIVER *** [Qc Td 5d 8s] [9h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
jusmac: shows [Th Qs] (two pair, Queens and Tens)
MrSticker66: mucks hand
jusmac collected $64.95 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $67.95 | Rake $3
Board [Qc Td 5d 8s 9h]
Seat 1: CMNilsson (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: jusmac showed [Th Qs] and won ($64.95) with two pair, Queens and Tens
Seat 3: FACUMDP folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: MrSticker66 mucked [Kc Kd]
Seat 5: LARSKEE folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: SRYsFINEST folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Micha126 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: JRAD23 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: jasons0147 (small blind) folded before Flop


POKERSTARS GAME #20886037350: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/10/03 2:22:17 ET
Table 'Bootes II' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: stiff686 ($29.65 in chips)
Seat 3: Moneysuck ($20.20 in chips)
Seat 4: ryang421 ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: dullshot ($21.65 in chips)
Seat 7: chirak1982 ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 8: MrSticker66 ($30.20 in chips)
Moneysuck: posts small blind $0.10
ryang421: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to MrSticker66 [Ad Td]
dullshot: calls $0.25
chirak1982: folds
MrSticker66: raises $1.25 to $1.50
stiff686: folds
Moneysuck: folds
ryang421: folds
dullshot: calls $1.25
*** FLOP *** [6d Ts 5s]
dullshot: checks
MrSticker66: bets $2.75
dullshot: raises $3.25 to $6
MrSticker66: raises $22.70 to $28.70 and is all-in
dullshot: calls $14.15 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($8.55) returned to MrSticker66
*** TURN *** [6d Ts 5s] [5h]
*** RIVER *** [6d Ts 5s 5h] [3h]
FrodoB47 joins the table at seat #6
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dullshot: shows [Kd Kc] (two pair, Kings and Fives)
MrSticker66: mucks hand
dullshot collected $41.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $43.65 | Rake $2.15
Board [6d Ts 5s 5h 3h]
Seat 1: stiff686 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Moneysuck (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: ryang421 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: dullshot showed [Kd Kc] and won ($41.50) with two pair, Kings and Fives
Seat 7: chirak1982 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: MrSticker66 mucked [Ad Td]

The 50NL hand you really shouldn't second guess yourself. 60bb deep it's always correct to stack here. Besides, when you go all in on the flop you do have 30% equity against villain's two pairs, which is about the price you get to play for stacks when he 3bets you on flop. Given that he could be on TP or a draw, folding would be wrong.

The 25NL hand is a lot more questionable. TPTK when TP is tens is not really a powerhouse. I wouldn't stack unless I have a read that villain stacks really light. I hope you did make a note that villain limps-calls UTG with KK.