$25FL FR: In SB chasing a flush, right call?

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peanutym

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So the villian raises preflop, im in the SB and call with ATs. An Ace comes out and i think im behind since he raised preflop. So i bet hoping to get some money in the pot. (Not sure if this is right though)

Turn comes and its a club giving me a nut flush draw. I figure im still behind though. But with the nut flush that is a huge pot to miss out on.

So my question here is was it right to call on the turn, since i was getting 7:1 odds on the pot and only need 5:1 to make my flush. Plus was it right to bet on the flop or should i have waited?


Stacks:
* MP2 with $1.40
* MP3 with $3.85
* CO with $2.30
* BTN with $6.60
* SB with $9.25
* BB with $10.00
* UTG with $24.35
* UTG+1 with $5.35
* MP1 with $10.25

hand.pl


hand.pl

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site:
* * Dealt to SB:T♣ A♣
* * Sklansky group 3
Preflop:
* * 2 players fold.
* * MP1 raises to $0.50
* * MP2 calls [$0.50]
* * MP3 calls [$0.50]
* * 2 players fold.
* * Hero calls [$0.40]
* * BB calls [$0.25]
* * Total folds this street: 4
* * Potsize: $2.5
Flop:
* * A♦ 8♠ 2♣
* * Hero bets [$0.25]
* * BB calls [$0.25]
* * MP1 raises to $0.50
* * MP2 calls [$0.50]
* * MP3 calls [$0.50]
* * Hero calls [$0.25]
* * BB calls [$0.25]
* * Potsize: $5
Turn:
* * 8♣
* * Hero checks
* * BB checks
* * MP1 bets [$0.50]
* * MP2 calls [$0.40] [ all-in ]
* * MP3 raises to $1
* * Hero calls [$1]
* * 1 players fold.
* * MP1 raises to $1.50
* * MP3 calls [$0.50]
* * Hero calls [$0.50]
* * Total folds this street: 1
* * Potsize: $9.9
River:
* * 5♥
* * Hero checks
* * MP1 checks
* * MP3 checks
Results:
* * MP1 shows :
* * A♠ J♣
* * MP1 wins the side pot ($3.15) with two pair, Aces and Eights
* * MP1 wins the main pot ($6.30) with two pair, Aces and Eights

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c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I actually like leading the flop. MP1 is unlikely to c-bet without an ace into so many players, so it prevents him from checking behind. Additionally, if MP1 raises, it can knock out some of those others, and possibly clear your outs.

Without the nut flush draw, obviously we have to fold the turn. However, with the the NFD, you're getting odds to see the river.
 
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peanutym

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thanks i was hoping that was the case. i thought i was getting odds to see turn and river both in this hand since he reraised me flop. But that pot was huge i couldnt see myself folding with the pot being almost $10 and i had only put in 2
 
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ncscout

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I am not a pro by a long shot but it lokks to me like you played the hand well. You can't fold the nut flush draw and I would have bet basically the same.
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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Why are you at a table with so many super short stacks, and you are short stacked yourself?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Why are you at a table with so many super short stacks, and you are short stacked yourself?
Its limit. He has enough to cap each street. His stack size is fine.
 
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viking999

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I like leading the flop, too. I think it's too much to assume your pair of aces is no good and betting maximizes value when they are good and minimizes loss when they aren't. Obviously, you aren't going to fold to a raise. But what if you take the check/call line? Are you check/folding the turn? That wouldn't make sense to me. In fact, if you take the passive line, I think you're pretty much committed to calling all three streets for one bet. The only reason I'd like a check on the flop is it gives you a chance to get away if there's a bet and a raise or worse behind you.

As stated by others, the turn is an absolute must call situation.

Just to clear up a couple points about the draw on the turn:

1) You only need 4:1 to call with a flush draw on the turn. You'll win with the flush about 20% of the time. So you win 4 20% of the time and lose 1 80% of the time. These two values are equal.

2) The board paired on the turn. I think it's a safe bet to say that someone has at least trips, so a river ten probably won't give you the best hand. Plus, it's possible that you're drawing dead or you will river a flush as someone else rivers a full house. I wouldn't consider this a full flush draw. I would cut your chances to at most seven outs to compensate. You need about 6:1 pot odds now, which you have so the call is still ok.

3) You have some implied odds and some reverse implied odds on the river. If you hit a flush and it's the best hand, I would expect to win at least one extra bet on the river. On the other hand, you may hit a flush against a full house or quads and lose two bets on the river. I think you still come out slightly ahead on river bets, but not by much.
 
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peanutym

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thansk viking i was looking for that. i still have issues thinking about full house against me when im coutning outs. i was still thinking 9 when in fact i had more like 7 due to that.

it didnt work out that time but man what a pay off if it did since i still had the odds. so thanks for your replies i appreciate it
 
Stick66

Stick66

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It's too easy to be "right" when we know the results. Try posting without them next time and see the difference in the replies you get.

Preflop: Calling the 2 bets was fine in the SB.

Flop: Being first to act, I like checking here. It would be nice to see what happens. If the bets escalate before it comes back to you, you can easily fold. If you get a bunch of checks or 1-bet calls, you know you have a chance PLUS it keeps the pot small for later when it gets more expensive for them to keep going.

Turn: Since you have the nut flush draw, a draw to 2 pair (your 10), and an 8 being too remote to consider being in one of your opponents' holdings, I think check/calling is fine. The pot was plenty large enough to stay all the way.

River: I think the checkdown was OK, but a case could also be made for building a pot here in case your villains were solely chasing draws & missed or had worse Aces and your hand could turn out being best. But I think that would depend on having a very solid read on them, though.


I'm curious to see what MP3 had, too.
 
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