$25 PL O 6-max: 3bet or call pf on fishy table

UTG is 80/10/1.9, half stack fish over small sample.

MP is 32/11/2.2, half stack over 218 hands.

BTN is 70/3/1.9, full stack fish over small sample.

SB is 25/13/1.5, seems pretty solid over small sample.

BB is 80/20/1.0, half stack fish over small sample.

Basic question. This hand is clearly good enough to 3bet. We're 3betting here, I think, for:

1. Value - this hand is going to hit a lot of flops, HU against MP we're in good shape in a 3bet pot.
2. Decrease chance that we're getting outdrawn by a superior drawing hand - in this case, our flush draw is trash multiway, and multiway we may end up drawing to a non-nut straight.
3. Position - buy the button.

With the fishy table, can we flat here as well, or is that bad? I'm assuming SB is folding without a strong hand, but the fish are coming along if I flat.

poker stars $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $15.00
MP: $14.55
Hero (CO): $25.00
BTN: $26.50
SB: $23.75
BB: $10.30

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with 7:club: 8:spade: 6:heart: 9:spade:
UTG calls $0.25, MP raises to $1, Hero ???

P.S. This is crossposted here: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/gen...ry-chat-thread-168666/index2.html#post1385725

Are these the type of fish that cannot fold overpairs/2 pairs on a straight/ flush board? A lot I guess will depend on post flop but 3 betting this tends to be my standard line pre. Also, you really think you can buy the button here?

marginal said:

Are these the type of fish that cannot fold overpairs/2 pairs on a straight/ flush board?

Yup

A lot I guess will depend on post flop but 3 betting this tends to be my standard line pre. Also, you really think you can buy the button here?

Nope

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..

There's really not a bad way to proceed. You can flat and hope fish come along for a flop. Then hopefully u can smash a flop and have fishies come along with inferior hands or fold the times you miss. You can also 3 bet to iso w position,but a lot of the times half stacked players will 4 bet / get it in with all AAxx hands and some 4 connectors / 4 wraps (T986)as well, so you do have to know if you're willing to play for 50 BB stacks (a little more here). I'd like flatting a lot more bc that allows fishies in the pot who can make bigger mistakes postflop

Caveats up front, I don't play 25 buck PLO, but do play 10 buck on occasion.

I also don't play 6 handed so much.

I don't like that hand as much as you seem to. Fear is that as often as not I'd end up on the idiot end of a straight, or get top carded on the flush. However, NO WAY IN HELL AM I LAYING THIS DOWN PREFLOP! So I'm flatting this.

I do play more O8 and this would be a hand that I have learned to tread lightly with if I hang around at all. Funny thing with all the Hi/Lo games is playing neither Hi cards nor Lo card but mid cards.

If they are as bad as sly says, I am not unhappy getting it in with bottom straights/ bad flushes. Worst case scenario is that the you get 4 bet by MP and he has AAKK double, in which case you still have 36% equity (assuming your flush is bad) against random AAxx, you have 40% equity.

Maybe I'm a little nitty in PLO but this hand looks nice at first glance but under further examination it winds up being a stinker for me. I never look at any flush draw without a face card(K or A). You str8 wrap is the one that sucks more out of you than any other. High enough to have you look at it but very beatable.

MP is about the only player at this table that I would be worried about and he is the one raisng you. What is your image at the table? And what do you want from these players?

If it was me I would either flat it and evaluate the flop. Or I would fold this. And most likely I fold this.

bubbasbestbabe said:

Or I would fold this. And most likely I fold this.

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Folding a medium 4 connector for a standard raise preflop in PLO is probably the wackiest idea I've heard. No way should folding enter our mind

bubbasbestbabe said:

What is your image at the table? And what do you want from these players?

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Good points - I'm pretty tight generally, at this table I was running 22/12, no 3bets, over 45 hands.

I had lost a couple of small pots to BTN, who was playing some godawful hands and hitting them. I showed down a set once I think.

SB and MP are the only two players I'd think would be paying much attention to my playing style though.

This is a hand that can hit the flop really hard - but as you point out, it's vulnerable to higher rundowns and the flush cards are garbage multiway. This is a hand I'm very confident in 3betting though, and love seeing the flop w HU (I love it even more when I open in position and get 3bet).

In this situation, I didn't think I could get HU, and the other players (w exceptions of MP and SB) were so bad that I felt I had a significant advantage postflop. Easy to dump on a missed flop, but on a good flop I felt that I'd be able to play strongly against likely 2pr/overpair hands. Having extra money in the pot from the fish to compensate for the possibility of getting in against a better rundown also crossed my mind preflop.

So, I was pretty specifically looking (multiway) for a wrap draw rainbow non-paired flop (which frequently is going to give me a 2pr hand as well) - HU, I'd be looking for the same obviously, but would be willing to play stronger postflop with more flops than multiway.

At any rate, that's what I was thinking. In retrospect, I wasn't sure whether I should've tried to get HU by 3betting - but the more I think about it, the less likely that seems to me.

No way in hell is folding an option..this hand is waaay too good.

Personally I'm 3betting this more than I'm flatting it... if one or more of the three stooges sitting behind you decide to come along that's not all that bad of a thing. If you at least get rid of the button that's a very good thing.

My image though may ultimately decide what I do... I don't absolutely hate flatting and seeing a 4 or 5 way pot.

bubbasbestbabe said:

Or I would fold this. And most likely I fold this.

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I'm terrible at Omaha, but I think I found someone worse than me :|

Lol. I would love to see some stats that show that this is winning hand.

bubbasbestbabe said:

Lol. I would love to see some stats that show that this is winning hand.

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You know, if you google "omaha starting hands 6789" you get about a trillion results telling you its a good starter....

bubbasbestbabe said:

Lol. I would love to see some stats that show that this is winning hand.

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In Omaha the hands we are trying to hit are pretty simple.

- Nut straight with redraws
- Top Set with a redraw / Top Boat
- 13+ card Straight Draws, mostly to the nuts
- Nut Flushes/Flush Draws


4 connectors offer an opportunity to flop the nut straight with a redraw, multiple 13 card straight draws, and also top 2 pair with an open end straight draw

The hand has mega potential and satisfied 2 of the 4 main handsa we r trying to hit in this game

And I just took a look at my stats with this hand. I have a win rate of only 33% with it. As stated, I've gotten very nitty with this and I would have folded.

bubbasbestbabe said:

And I just took a look at my stats with this hand. I have a win rate of only 33% with it. As stated, I've gotten very nitty with this and I would have folded.

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Please stop?

BBB, you are burning money.