$25 PL O 6-max: 200bb deep omaha wrap

Marginal · Feb 19, 2010

UTG raises a ton preflop and generally stacks off uber light. He stacked off KKxx on a A7566 board, no flush possible. Same thing goes for MP, he opens a lot of pots but first 3 bet from him so I will be putting him on AAxx or KKQJ type hands. BB is not a bad player but on this board I know with his style that he is only donking with either a set or 2 pair, he never donks with any draws.

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

UTG ($56.54)
MP ($11.25)
Button ($15.73)
Hero (SB) ($56.18)
BB ($47.10)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9

, J

, 7

, 8

UTG bets $0.85, MP raises to $2.90, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.80, BB calls $2.65, UTG calls $2.05

Flop: ($11.60) 9

, 10

, 4

(4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $11.60, 1 fold, MP calls $8.35 (All-In), hero????

Am I correct in thinking that shoving is the right move here or can I be calling here? FD on board makes this interesting. If monotone board, I shove this 100%

slycbnew · Feb 20, 2010

Would he have 4bet something like KJT9/KQT9 pf?

There are a lot of scare cards on the turn (T,9,any spade, not keen on seeing anything Q or higher as well) w over 50bb's in the middle already if we just call, prefer pushing on the flop.

Marginal · Feb 20, 2010

slycbnew said:
Would he have 4bet something like KJT9/KQT9 pf?

There are a lot of scare cards on the turn (T,9,any spade, not keen on seeing anything Q or higher as well) w over 50bb's in the middle already if we just call, prefer pushing on the flop.

Nope, the 3 bets and 4 bets have been really nitty and he definitely never has a run down. If I had position a call might not be too bad a thing tbh but alas, I do not have it.

Zybomb · Feb 20, 2010

For starters I'd fold preflop. We have the worst position, and despite being double suited our hand is top gapped which ruins it as it flops 'sucker' wraps always. For instance Against QJT8 on this T94 board only a 6 wins the pot for us, a 7 and Q chops (and we are freerolled on the 7) and we lose if an 8 or J comes. Against KQJ8 we again win only when a 6 comes, chop a 7 (but are getting freerolled) and lose 8,J and Q.

I'd call JT97ss, JT98ss or even (slightly more marginal OOP) JT87ss, but whenever a hand is top gapped it means it will make sucker wraps and not nut ones.

As for the flop as played, again I fold. Shove? What? We have no flush draw and a sucker wrap (not to mention no spades in our hand and thus more available) If we give BB top set and Reraiser AA with the nut FD we have like 10% equity here. If we give BB a set and Reraiser AKQJ w the nut FD we're even less. Out of our 17 wrap outs we have to discount 5 spades leaving us 12, then take into account that the board could pair and that AA w the nut FD probably has broadway cards in it also which make our non nut straights no good even when they come

Unless players are bad enough to shovel money in with naked Aces or other random nonsense this is a board that looks good for us but in reality has us drawing slim

cAPSLOCK · Feb 20, 2010

It is a vulnerable straight draw with the nut straight beating this often. You have no spade draw and no blockers and are oop. Unless the table is uber loose I'd actually check.fold this. And I would most likely NOT fold this pre flop. But that is because *I* am a loose idiot. I think if the table is any good it is a very very dangerous hand to play, and I bet better players might even fold it pre flop.

I can think of way too many situation where your equity is too low.

You are way behind and/or drawing.

-edit- Ah.. i see Zybomb says what I am thinking but a bit better.

Marginal · Feb 20, 2010

Zybomb said:
For starters I'd fold preflop. We have the worst position, and despite being double suited our hand is top gapped which ruins it as it flops 'sucker' wraps always. For instance Against QJT8 on this T94 board only a 6 wins the pot for us, a 7 and Q chops (and we are freerolled on the 7) and we lose if an 8 or J comes. Against KQJ8 we again win only when a 6 comes, chop a 7 (but are getting freerolled) and lose 8,J and Q.

I'd call JT97ss, JT98ss or even (slightly more marginal OOP) JT87ss, but whenever a hand is top gapped it means it will make sucker wraps and not nut ones.

As for the flop as played, again I fold. Shove? What? We have no flush draw and a sucker wrap (not to mention no spades in our hand and thus more available) If we give BB top set and Reraiser AA with the nut FD we have like 10% equity here. If we give BB a set and Reraiser AKQJ w the nut FD we're even less. Out of our 17 wrap outs we have to discount 5 spades leaving us 12, then take into account that the board could pair and that AA w the nut FD probably has broadway cards in it also which make our non nut straights no good even when they come

Unless players are bad enough to shovel money in with naked Aces or other random nonsense this is a board that looks good for us but in reality has us drawing slim

You underestimate how much equity we really have, at worst against the top of their ranges (with them holding like 4 blockers) we have 27% and they aren't exactly showing up with that here. Even if if the 3 better preflop has the fd, we are still in a side pot 150bb deep against bb. I know it is thin but I just can't see it being unprofitable. They have draws here like never.

cAPSLOCK · Feb 20, 2010

They have draws here like never.

So do you think they are potting with sets?

I just cant see how they wouldn't be (re)drawing.

Marginal · Feb 20, 2010

cAPSLOCK said:
So do you think they are potting with sets?

I just cant see how they wouldn't be (re)drawing.

What I really mean to say is that they do not necessarily need a redraw to be sticking money in. AAxx no fd and bottom 2 pair is enough for these guys.

Makwa · Feb 20, 2010

I agree with Zy and cAPS, u r drawing real slim here. Against good opponents, get out of the hand. If they are really calling stations who stick around with marginal hands (sorry lol), might be worth a go. Generally tho u have a weak starting hand OOP so let it go...

baudib1 · Feb 21, 2010

You can't get it in here vs. 2 without a flush draw.

Zybomb · Feb 21, 2010

marginal said:
You underestimate how much equity we really have, at worst against the top of their ranges (with them holding like 4 blockers) we have 27% and they aren't exactly showing up with that here. Even if if the 3 better preflop has the fd, we are still in a side pot 150bb deep against bb. I know it is thin but I just can't see it being unprofitable. They have draws here like never.

27% worst case?

If player 1 has a set and player two has AKQJ with spades just think of our outs

3 non spade 6s,2 non spade 7s. And we can get redrawn by any spade, a higher straight card or a board pair on the river

you can't possibly think thats anywhere close to 27% equity can you? It's like 10% and even less if we include some straight cards with other guys top set (which is likely, if he called a 3bet he probably is connected around his TT)

If we ease off a little and give the reraiser AA55 instead with spades (trying to free up as many straight cards as possible, unrealistic) and the other guy top set, we still only have 12 outs with the possibility of being redrawn on by 9 spades and 9 fullhouse cards if we do hit clean on the turn, or be drawing dead on the turn if a spade comes/board pairs... and thats not taking into account that someone with top set who calls a 3 bet pre probably connects with JQ in his hand as well....and this is the best case scenario .... unless of course ppl are bad enough to get itin with nakedAces here or other random nonsense

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$25 PL O 6-max: 200bb deep omaha wrap

Marginal

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slycbnew

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Marginal

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Zybomb

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cAPSLOCK

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Marginal

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cAPSLOCK

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Marginal

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baudib1

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