$25 NLHE Zone: Am I actually folding this?

Jblocher1

Jblocher1

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Ok guys, 25NL zone on bovada....

I look down at 88 in the BB. Button opens to 75c, small blind calls, I re pop to 2.5 dollars. Both players call.

Flop come Q62, we check around. Turn is a 7... Small blind checks, I bet 3 dollars, button calls BB folds.

River is an 8.... But puts 3 hearts on the board. At this point I'm pretty happy and I'm looking for value. I bet 6 dollars and the button jams for 15 more.

Well.... WTF? Am I folding?
 
blueskies

blueskies

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First of all, I would just call preflop and look to flop an 8 in a 3way pot.

Once you 3bet and got called, on that dry flop with just one overcard and only the btn to act you have to cbet to try to take it down after showing strength preflop.

I think it's a mistake to inflate the pot preflop with an ok hand but then to give away the momentum on the flop. Either play it aggressively or just setmine. Don't go middle ground on a relatively innocuous flop.

You're not folding out anyone with that weak turn bet after you check the flop. You're giving draws the odds to see the river.

Was there 2 hearts on the flop? Or did the 2nd heart come on the turn?

I think you're beaten here. Muck it. Even if he had 9Tos, you're dead.
 
D

DunningKruger

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I have nothing kind to say about the way this hand was played but I'll leave that to better posters than I. Just curious why you keep choosing not to post these spots in the HA forum. Is this just because it's Bovada or..?
 
Jblocher1

Jblocher1

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I have nothing kind to say about the way this hand was played but I'll leave that to better posters than I. Just curious why you keep choosing not to post these spots in the HA forum. Is this just because it's Bovada or..?

Lol I mis click placed the thread. I meant to Toss it into the analysis section. Would be appreciative if a mod could move it there
 
Jblocher1

Jblocher1

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Also I understand I played the flop bad, but the whole point of my turn sizing was to get value from like 7x and draws.

I'm really only interested in my river play on this one... Thanks
 
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AsylumBoy

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I say shove.
If you open badly, might as well end it badly.
 
el_magiciann

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By calling your turn raise it is likely for your foe to have a draw like straight or flush draws, and when river opens connected card to both straight and flush draws then you probably should fold your hand, it is wrong to think that your opponent is making bluff on turn because the re raising on turn 90% means very strong hand. So it is unlucky 8 and FOLD! :)
 
Karozi615

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If the heart draw was on the flop I would tank call and maybe fold. If there were running hearts I would snap call. You might not think this subtle difference is relevant but it changes everything
 
Jblocher1

Jblocher1

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I say shove.
If you open badly, might as well end it badly.

Yeah that's not true lol. There's always a chance to make the right play later on. It's an expensive call for me to make.
 
Karozi615

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Also if you know anything about zone Bovada its pretty standard for people to overplay buttons and open raise every single button they get.
His hand range could be:
Any 2 pair
smaller sets
AQ KQ
You have to call, that's it. If he has it then he has it. Look at the pot odds and you hand strength. At 25NL there is just too much you beat. The problem is if he had a hand that was worse than yours he can't call you on the river because your bet exceeds half his stack, he either has to fold or go with his hand. The fact that people are suggesting folding here makes no sense to me at all. He has it sometimes but you win enough to make this move extremely +ev. And yes I am taking the game into consideration, bovada zone poker is soft.
 
Karozi615

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also I disagree with blueskies about inflating the pot preflop. You had the best hand at the time, clearly the button was raising light, and the SB weakly followed with a limp. If you believe in your post flop play you can be aggressive in those spots, and most of the time you get at least one to fold. The problem is you have to make marginal decisions. The hand you described is the definition of marginal, is there slight value in calling or slight value in folding? arguments could be made for both but this is where the good players make their money. Big folds are just as good as big calls.
 
IPlay

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I call, villian interpreted your turn bet as a steal attempt and gave you river bet no credit.

Really, you should of bet the flop though and this probably would not of happened unless he did infact have the nuts.
 
chipstacker

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It probably depends on how you are doing that day and how much you have to lose. The person probably just had top pair and it turned into a two pair. If 15 is alot to you then prob best you folded because there is an outside chance that he had a pair on the board and then happened to get the flush, but it is more likely that he made a two pair and thinks you have just top pair or over pair.
 
Karozi615

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I agree with Iplay. The mistake here came on the flop because you lost a ton of fold equity and failed to polarize opponents hand. You only bet for value when the scare card came. You played the hand backwards, I really like the raise preflop but you HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH. You can get a good player off of KQ/KJ if you tell a story and size your bets accordingly (so that your jamming river with about 2/3rds of your stack). Your preflop raise represented AA KK AK QQ JJ 1010, why not rep it the whole way? If your playing scared you already lost, and you played scared in this hand.
 
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jj20002

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at the end there were a color project completed, and a straight, so there were a lot of hands to lose against

not knowing the villain`s game it`s tough but first info here, villain calls 0.75 and then paid 2.50??

what could he hold to perform in that way?

could he bet this way to look for a project? suited connectors? 4-5s or 9-Ts?

maybe he was holding Q-8 so in this case you were ahead,

for me, you should cbet 1/3 at least after the pot, and no matter what he had he were folded

you let 2 players see so many cards at a low cost regarding the pot and at the end you found yourself in a tough call
 
Jblocher1

Jblocher1

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I agree with Iplay. The mistake here came on the flop because you lost a ton of fold equity and failed to polarize opponents hand. You only bet for value when the scare card came. You played the hand backwards, I really like the raise preflop but you HAVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH. You can get a good player off of KQ/KJ if you tell a story and size your bets accordingly (so that your jamming river with about 2/3rds of your stack). Your preflop raise represented AA KK AK QQ JJ 1010, why not rep it the whole way? If your playing scared you already lost, and you played scared in this hand.

Yeah.... I like this analysis. Thanks :)
 
etherghost

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I have nothing kind to say about the way this hand was played but I'll leave that to better posters than I. Just curious why you keep choosing not to post these spots in the HA forum. Is this just because it's Bovada or..?

Actually, I think he played rather well considering he was called by raising. He can be almost sure he's getting raised by AQ at this point.
 
blueskies

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also I disagree with blueskies about inflating the pot preflop. You had the best hand at the time, clearly the button was raising light, and the SB weakly followed with a limp. If you believe in your post flop play you can be aggressive in those spots, and most of the time you get at least one to fold. The problem is you have to make marginal decisions. The hand you described is the definition of marginal, is there slight value in calling or slight value in folding? arguments could be made for both but this is where the good players make their money. Big folds are just as good as big calls.

You only read part of my sentence. I was saying that if he decides to play pocket 8s aggressively pre, then he's gotta follow it up on a dry flop to try to take it right there. 88 is a mediocre hand at best post flop if the hand goes to the river. What is being accomplished by checking the flop?

If he's gonna play that weakly on the flop, then he should just call preflop.

It's not like the flop was AKQ.
 
sam1chips

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You only read part of my sentence. I was saying that if he decides to play pocket 8s aggressively pre, then he's gotta follow it up on a dry flop to try to take it right there. 88 is a mediocre hand at best post flop if the hand goes to the river. What is being accomplished by checking the flop?

If he's gonna play that weakly on the flop, then he should just call preflop.

It's not like the flop was AKQ.

+1.
 
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