$25 NLHE Heads-up: 25nl HU flop TP\nut flush draw vs river shove

Ok i bet real small on the flop hoping to induce a spazz out by villain is this line ok?Turn I think he's got st8\flush draw so i bet for value ~2\3 of the pot should i have bet more?On the river i was checking to keep the pot from getting to big with just top pair,then villain shoves.My hand is now just a bluff catcher right?Easy call here with the size of the pot?

Merge, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $29.36 (117.4 bb) 56\50\5
Hero (BB): $26 (104 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q A
SB raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.75, SB calls $2

Flop: ($5.50) T Q 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $2, SB calls $2

Turn: ($9.50) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, SB calls $6

River: ($21.50) J (2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets $18.61 and is all-in Hero?

Good hand. I think the river is a fold as played, but its super close. Calling is probably fine if you think this guy has it in him to value-cut himself or bluff.

I'm kinda confused about the line here, so I want a bit longer to think about that. But what jumps out to me is the size of the flop bet, why so small? I get that you want calls, but a QT board is pretty wet in a 3-bet flop, almost every broadway hand will have at least a gutshot. I think you could easily bet $3.50 or $4.00 and get plenty of calls.

JOEBOB69 said:

On the river i was checking to keep the pot from getting to big with just top pair,

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Also, this makes no sense. A) its a 3-bet pot, you don't care about pot control really.

B) The pot is already big. Villain has the option to shove for less than a potsized bet. By checking, you're really just allowing villain to decide when he wants to make a big pot and when he doesn't. The only reason to check here is if you think his range is strong, or if you think he'll bluff a lot.

Here's a skype convo with BGomez that I had about the hand.

[1:24:24 PM] C9H13NO3: and villain's stats seem pretty solid
[1:24:34 PM] C9H13NO3: 56/50 seems kinda tight HU
[1:24:39 PM] C9H13NO3: his AF is 5.0
[1:24:42 PM] C9H13NO3: but idk, what that means heads up
[1:24:56 PM] Brandon Gomez: Means very aggressive?
[1:25:26 PM] C9H13NO3: think he would call/call with a set on that board?
[1:25:29 PM] C9H13NO3: probably not?
[1:25:58 PM] Brandon Gomez: No
[1:26:13 PM] C9H13NO3: Hand 0: 12.500% 00.00% 12.50% 0 3.00 { AsQs }
Hand 1: 87.500% 75.00% 12.50% 18 3.00 { JJ, AQs, QJs, JTs, AQo, QJo, JTo }
[1:26:28 PM] Brandon Gomez: Lol
[1:26:36 PM] Brandon Gomez: Yeah fold
[1:26:47 PM] C9H13NO3: if he shoves KQ its a call tho
[1:26:59 PM] C9H13NO3: and HU, there's always some random shenanigans
[1:27:22 PM] Brandon Gomez: Eh
[1:27:23 PM] C9H13NO3: I hate folding TPTK in a spot like that where the SPR is really large
[1:27:50 PM] Brandon Gomez: I wish we would've bet flop more
[1:27:57 PM] C9H13NO3: yeah
[1:28:00 PM] C9H13NO3: I also wish he had shoved the river
[1:28:28 PM] Brandon Gomez: Didn't you just say jacks are te worst cards?
[1:28:37 PM] Brandon Gomez: Shoving seems like spew
[1:30:05 PM] C9H13NO3: shoving's better than check/calling IMO
[1:30:20 PM] C9H13NO3: KQ/Q9/AJ/KJ probably never bet this river
[1:30:24 PM] C9H13NO3: they'll call once in a while
[1:30:40 PM] C9H13NO3: all the draws got there
[1:30:43 PM] C9H13NO3: there's really not many bluffs in his range
[1:30:57 PM] C9H13NO3: like, none
[1:31:11 PM] C9H13NO3: I can't think of a combo that calls twice and then has NO showdown value on that river
[1:31:24 PM] C9H13NO3: unless he turns bad showdown value into a bluff (like AT or something)
[1:31:41 PM] Brandon Gomez: Yeah
[1:31:45 PM] Brandon Gomez: Gotta go
[1:31:46 PM] C9H13NO3: so if you're checking this river, I think its to fold to a shove

Snap folding.

I think river is a pretty easy c/f as played. I may shove river myself if I think he has some spazzy Q9s and hero calls KJ/AJ once in a while. Otherwise everything basically got there, and we block a ton of his busted draws that we might induce a bluff from. So I c/f vs a taggy HU player and vbet vs fish and hyper aggros.

c9h13no3 said:

Good hand. I think the river is a fold as played, but its super close. Calling is probably fine if you think this guy has it in him to value-cut himself or bluff.

I'm kinda confused about the line here, so I want a bit longer to think about that. But what jumps out to me is the size of the flop bet, why so small? I get that you want calls, but a QT board is pretty wet in a 3-bet flop, almost every broadway hand will have at least a gutshot. I think you could easily bet $3.50 or $4.00 and get plenty of calls.

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I wasn't just tring to get called here.Villain being argo i thought he would spazz out to such a low bet in a 3bet pot an raise huge,i was wrong though.

c9h13no3 said:

Also, this makes no sense. A) its a 3-bet pot, you don't care about pot control really.

B) The pot is already big. Villain has the option to shove for less than a potsized bet. By checking, you're really just allowing villain to decide when he wants to make a big pot and when he doesn't. The only reason to check here is if you think his range is strong, or if you think he'll bluff a lot.

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To be honest i hate the J on the river an really don't know what do to there,so i check as a default play here.Maybe i should have shoved?I just don't see getting called by worse.

should have bet more on the flop and turn, then have to bet the river too...either way, if it gets to the river neway and he shoves u have to fold...the way u played it tho i think u let him think u were afraid and that he could bluff u off of it...not saying it was a bluff, but i could understand how it could have been one....regardless, have to fold there - too many hands could have gotten there

You have to break down his range and weigh your options that way. He calls KQ like %100 of the time there, which is obv worse, but he has too many 2pair and sets to make a value bet profitable, assuming he's taggy.

his aggression frequency is 5? i like a check/raise on the flop. assuming he always bets and with 5 AF i think its safe to say he will.
we have a ton of equity on this flop against his range. fact that he flats are 3bet i am ruling out AA,KK so we basically flopped the nuts with a redraw. i want to get as much money in on the flop as possible.

check/raise flop, shove turn looks like best line against this aggressive player imo.
as played i think i call river.

I think this hand was played well if you folded the river.

The flop bet is fine/good, especially if it can induce spazz because of the size. I can see how betting like $3 would be fine, too, but if we bet more than that we might as well pot it and shove the turn.

Piece missing is how villain responds to 3-bets and how often he 4-bets. I don't expect anyone to flat AK to 3-bets HU, but he's going to have a lot of 2 pair hands here.

I think river is closer than the stove suggested but he'd have to be turning a lot of pairs into bluffs and b/f $8ish > c/f >>>>>>> c/c.

cheaptrix said:

his aggression frequency is 5? i like a check/raise on the flop. assuming he always bets and with 5 AF i think its safe to say he will.
we have a ton of equity on this flop against his range. fact that he flats are 3bet i am ruling out AA,KK so we basically flopped the nuts with a redraw. i want to get as much money in on the flop as possible.

check/raise flop, shove turn looks like best line against this aggressive player imo.
as played i think i call river.

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Nah a c/r just shuts him down and gets the least money in the pot. We check, he bets like $3, we c/r to whatever, he folds all his bluffs. If we cbet (I prefer ~$3 here), he bluff raises to like $8 or $9, then we can take it from there. Generally flatting and giving him a shot to put more money in.

If he's super super aggro then c/c all 3 streets is fine too, but my standard is just betting.

ChuckTs said:

Nah a c/r just shuts him down and gets the least money in the pot. We check, he bets like $3, we c/r to whatever, he folds all his bluffs.

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good point! i still have a hard time finding the fold button on river as most have suggested.
the action leading up to the river leads me to believe his range looks like this:
KQ, KJ, J9, QJ, JT, JJ, 8s9s. if he is at all competent then i think those are the only hands that he could have by the river.
stove says we have 62.7% equity vs this range... i can't think of any other hands that a halfway competent player would take this line with.

i'm calling river. is my range way off here?

yes, he is probably more likely to have all the other combos of 98 rather than 98ss, which would probably raise the flop, and he can have AK, AQ, QT and it's not at all certain that he'd shove the worse hands.

You think there is value for villain to shove KQ,KJ,J9 i don't.But you have to had some Kx missed spade draws maybe some random connected missed spade draws as well.Truthfully i don't know if this villain is shoving 10J,an i rule out Q10 because that would have raised by the turn.So in my thinking that leaves AQ,QJ,89,AK,sets for vaule.For bluffs Kxs,some xxspades.Does this range look right?Some one want to rerun through stove.
Edit:

baudib1 said:

yes, he is probably more likely to have all the other combos of 98 rather than 98ss, which would probably raise the flop, and he can have AK, AQ, QT, JT and it's not at all certain that he'd shove the worse hands.

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i would rule out AK, QT, 89 (except spades). would expect 4bet with AK, i think? guess its possible, idk? QT i would expect him to raise top 2 on flush board at least by the turn.
doubt he makes it to the river with gutshot so i would rule out 89 except 8s9s.

guess we would need to know if villain is capable of turning a made hand into a bluff. b/c i have him shoving KQ, KJ, J9 on the river and that is where all of our equity is coming from.

JOEBOB69 said:

So in my thinking that leaves AQ,QJ,89,AK,sets for vaule.For bluffs Kxs,some xxspades.Does this range look right?Some one want to rerun through stove.
Edit:

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i would rule out all sets except JJ and even that i think we could possibly rule out. think he might 4bet JJ and anyother set i think he would raise with draw heavy board.

Learn to the read the board, 98 is a double-gutter on the flop.

Flush draws raise the flop; I don't think villain ever has less than Jx here.

Some argo players lock up an slow play sets to death HU's even on wet boards.If this villain is one idk.
Edit from this player QQ,10 10,JJ is a auto 4bet.

baudib1 said:

Learn to the read the board, 98 is a double-gutter on the flop.

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yes u r correct, sry.

cheaptrix said:

good point! i still have a hard time finding the fold button on river as most have suggested.
the action leading up to the river leads me to believe his range looks like this:
KQ, KJ, J9, QJ, JT, JJ, 8s9s. if he is at all competent then i think those are the only hands that he could have by the river.
stove says we have 62.7% equity vs this range... i can't think of any other hands that a halfway competent player would take this line with.

i'm calling river. is my range way off here?

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That may be his overall range on the river (although I'd discount 89s and J9s; they don't both always call pf), but his calling range once we shove is different. As is his betting range when we check. If you're punching a hand into stove without discounting it, then you're assuming he gets to that point in the hand with those cards %100 of the time.

In our situation, we're stoving because we want to see his calling range. J9 certainly doesn't call %100 of the time on the river. I'd say it calls maybe %25 of the time, ballparking. Then given that he would pretty much always fold J9o pf and stack Js9s on the flop, that leaves 3 combos (J9h, J9d, J9c) in his range. I'd say keeping one of those combos is fair. One combo.

Then we can say KJ isn't likely to call that often either, maybe about the same % of the time as J9, probably a little higher in reality.

My range with a little bit more effort:


Board: Ts Qc 6s 2h Jd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.852% 51.85% 00.00% 14 0.00 { QQ-TT, KQs, KcJc, KhJh, QTs+, JTs, Jh9h, 9c8c, 9d8d, KQo, KcJd, KcJh, KcJs }
Hand 1: 48.148% 48.15% 00.00% 13 0.00 { AsQs }

Obviously it's close. I think we could discount J9/KJ a bit more tbh, which would make it a clearer c/fold.

Chuck: If you are including JJ-QQ in his range I'd have to think you'd keep AK in it too, and there are many more AK combos than QQ-JJ. We should also include AQ.

JB: How often were you 3-betting and how did he respond? How did he play draws and how often did he shove the river? That would clarify a lot of things.

Given how the hand played out and how aggro he is, I'd put more weight on him getting there on the river after calling down with a weakish draw (AK, K9, 98) or marginal pair (QJ, JT). As he can't have the NFD and his most likely K-high flush draws are combos (KJss, K9ss) that he'd likely raise facing this weakish flop bet, I think he has little to zero air here.

I was playing a 52\52\7 28%3bet.
The rest i would have to go through some hands on the replayer.
Edit:He shoved river 1 time before he 4x a pot idk what he had fold obv.Flush draw did hit the river though.

Thanks for the feed back guys i thought it was super close.

baudib1 said:

Chuck: If you are including JJ-QQ in his range I'd have to think you'd keep AK in it too, and there are many more AK combos than QQ-JJ. We should also include AQ.

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I rushed through my range too much (TT-QQ need to be discounted, as does QT given board texture, etc), but I disagree about AK. He's not flatting a gutter twice all the time and if it's in his range it's going to be heavily discounted, esp since we have an ace which discounts the FD or even the backdoor FD.

I'd rather have AK on the turn than JJ but it's close.